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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Ruy Lopez with black (Read 10169 times)
micawber
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Re: Ruy Lopez with black
Reply #9 - 09/17/06 at 11:10:18
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Well....
Black has one other option after 4.d3: He might prefer 4...h6 aiming to play a asetup with
(g6,Bg7,Qe7,d6). This was the way both Spasski and Beljaviski played at the beginning of the eighties.
Nor do I think that black is very much in trouble in the Two-Knights.
Both the Fritz-variation (avoiding the Berlin-sac) and the main variation with 10...Bc5 seem OK for black.

« Last Edit: 09/17/06 at 14:31:38 by micawber »  
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MNb
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Re: Ruy Lopez with black
Reply #8 - 09/17/06 at 01:33:18
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Nothing. You have already answered your own question. Black avoids the Evans Gambit and the Bird Attack 4.c3 Nf6 5.b4. But if you don't think them dangerous, then you must by all means play 3...Bc5. That's a matter of logic.
I must repeat again, that the KG would be much more popular on all levels, if 2.f4 Bc5 were Black's best. White has better prospects for a nice advantage than in both the Petrov and the Closed Ruy Lopez.
  

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Re: Ruy Lopez with black
Reply #7 - 09/16/06 at 23:28:30
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Willempie wrote on 09/16/06 at 15:18:58:
Besides the Ruy line of choice (the Chigorin is a very good pick), your main choice is which line to play against the Italian complex. Here you will have to pick either the 2 knights with 3...Nf6 or go for the plain Giouco with 3..Bc5. Whichever you pick they basically dictate many other choices as there are plenty of transpositions (essentially all gambits involving d4). Both options are good, with the 2knights being more agressive and thus more risky and Bc5 being the more prudent. Mnb could give you a whole rundown of the advantages of the former and me of the latter (there should be quite some threads here about this issue). Leaves you with something to pick against the scotch (4..Bc5 is a good option) and against the KG (2..Bc5 also a good option and yes I am rather fond of this move Wink) and some other minor lines such as 2Bb5 Grin


About what to play against the Italian. I've read some "treaties" on this on the forum, but I remain unconvinced about the two-knights. First point is that black in my view has to struggle hard for a draw in the two-knights, when it is usually only due to rating difference that black manages to outplay white before he consolidates the pawn. The second, more crucial, point is that any white player can just decide to play 4.d3 against the two-knights, and I really have no clue exactly what black AVOIDED by playing 3...Nf6 instead of 3...Bc5 (no, I don't consider the Evans Gambit or 4.c3 dangerous, and I don't think 4.d3 Be7 is any good for black). In my experience, going for the two-knights might be a fun study, but essentially in vain, as white keeps all his best options open.

What did I miss?
  
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Willempie
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Re: Ruy Lopez with black
Reply #6 - 09/16/06 at 15:18:58
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Besides the Ruy line of choice (the Chigorin is a very good pick), your main choice is which line to play against the Italian complex. Here you will have to pick either the 2 knights with 3...Nf6 or go for the plain Giouco with 3..Bc5. Whichever you pick they basically dictate many other choices as there are plenty of transpositions (essentially all gambits involving d4). Both options are good, with the 2knights being more agressive and thus more risky and Bc5 being the more prudent. Mnb could give you a whole rundown of the advantages of the former and me of the latter (there should be quite some threads here about this issue). Leaves you with something to pick against the scotch (4..Bc5 is a good option) and against the KG (2..Bc5 also a good option and yes I am rather fond of this move Wink) and some other minor lines such as 2Bb5 Grin
  

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Re: Ruy Lopez with black
Reply #5 - 09/15/06 at 20:32:38
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I play some 1...e5, and many different lines at that (Latvian Gambit, Bird Variation of the Ruy Lopez (3...Nd4), Smyslov variation of the Ruy Lopez (3...g6), Petroff, and Philador.  Of course, I also play 1...e6 (my main defense to 1.e4, especially against strong opposition), 1...c6, and 1...d5.

In response to the last post.  You love to face non-Spanish lines, huh?  Well, while I have quit playing 1.e4, at the tail end of my "1.e4-Career", I took up the Portuguese Opening (1.e4 e5 2.Bb5!!).  My results may not be "steller", but I never lost with it (2 wins, 7 draws, no losses).

Watch out 1...e5 players.  It may be that 2.Bb5 stops all winning chances for Black!  Smiley
  
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Re: Ruy Lopez with black
Reply #4 - 09/05/06 at 18:34:19
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Rimfaxe wrote on 09/03/06 at 13:36:34:
I am also switching from the sicilian to e5. I have just bought Nigel Davies' book: Play 1.e4 e5! I hope it will help me build a basic e5 repertoire. I think most of my study time the next weeks will go to study all the different 2nd and 3rd and 4th moves from white. It will take some time before I can begin to study the different continuations in the RL after move 10!


I've been a 1...e5 player all my life, and personally I'm very happy whenever White plays anything besides the Spanish.  His winning chances then are reduced and often, as with the King's Gambit or the Two Knights, Black obtains winning chances.

But the right spirit with which to enter 1...e5 is definitely not, "now I am going to play a slow, solid game."  White can easily force complex, open play.  Good grief, he can play 2. d4.  Also he has many different ways to test your theoretical knowledge, so book up.  Fortunately 1...e5 theory outside the Spanish is changing only very slowly, one possible exception being the Scotch.

I do very heartily recommend Olivier Renet's updates here as a way of keeping up on your 1...e5 theory, and also of gaining some interesting new insights.  Recently he had a very nice bit on how best to play against the Italian.
  

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Re: Ruy Lopez with black
Reply #3 - 09/03/06 at 13:36:34
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I am also switching from the sicilian to e5. I have just bought Nigel Davies' book: Play 1.e4 e5! I hope it will help me build a basic e5 repertoire. I think most of my study time the next weeks will go to study all the different 2nd and 3rd and 4th moves from white. It will take some time before I can begin to study the different continuations in the RL after move 10!
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Ruy Lopez with black
Reply #2 - 09/01/06 at 21:26:28
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Quote:
My rating is around 2100-2150 FIDE and I would like the slow play of the Ruy, and any advice would be appreciated.


Always nice with new e5 players! Smiley

But don't expect everything to be 'slow play' - there's plenty of stuff to learn just to survive both in the Ruy and in all the other openings. If you haven't already, I'd advice you to try it out in net-blitz for a couple of  weeks or look at all 1.e4 e5 games of a strong longtime e5 player (e.g. Beliavsky, Smyslov or Hector - but not someone who only plays +2700 events)  to see what's most popular and get an idea of where to put your biggest efforts.

- It can be a very frustrating experience to learn the Spanish only to face everything else like the Two Knights, Four Knights, Vienna, Scotch and of course the dear old KG.

- Not to mention a number of often refuted surprise lines books seldom mention but played because they are sharp and the antidote isn't obvious or easy to find...
  
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Mortal Games
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Re: Ruy Lopez with black
Reply #1 - 09/01/06 at 18:32:40
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Hi!

If your choice is the Chigorin Ruy Lopez with Qc7, I can advice two books: Glenn Flear- The Ruy Lopez Main Lines (it is about all closed Ruy Lopez defences, not only Chigorin) from Everyman and volume- 2 of Anand repertoire from Chess Stars (all main lines too and more detailed). It is a pity that an old opening like the Ruy Lopez, do not have individual books on the main lines on the market today. I saw a new book that will appear on january 2007 from Gambit but is about Zaitzev defence.
Nigel Davies has a recent book: Play 1.e4 e5! but is defence to the Lopez is the Keres variation with Nd7 insted of Qc7.
Changing form the Sicilian to 1...e5 is a lot of work! Good Luck!   Smiley      

  

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Ruy Lopez with black
08/27/06 at 20:14:41
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Hi!

I am considering switching to the Chigorin Ruy Lopez from the Sicilian with black and was wondering if anyone had suggestions of a repertoire or any good books on the subject.

My rating is around 2100-2150 FIDE and I would like the slow play of the Ruy, and any advice would be appreciated.

Sandstad
  
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