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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook (Read 22011 times)
Lovuschka
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #26 - 02/03/10 at 11:06:52
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Well, some diagrams on the second to last page don't work - they only seem to return a 404 error. Also, they seem to need JavaScript to be shown. (?)

(diagrams 3_12, 3_17, 3_18, 3_26 don't work to me)

For your convenience,* I retrieved the websites from web.archive.org and uploaded it AS IS to http://archive.sh-kunstschach.eu/pdjoseph_fhpawns.zip (287 KB)

* = It took quite long to load it from web.archive.org, should be quite faster from my site. You should unzip it to a new directory.
  
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GabrielGale
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #25 - 02/02/10 at 02:37:42
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Lovuschka wrote on 02/01/10 at 08:29:44:
theoretical wrote on 07/15/09 at 22:30:51:
The original link

     http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PDJoseph/masteryinchess.htm

does not work anymore.  I tried Google cache and Internet Archive, but was unsuccessful.  Any suggestion?


Try again:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071120234620/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071121013705/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071121234020/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071209230452/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20070824084242/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20070826164425/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071108232259/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...

Of course, the diagrams are gone but I think one should be able to reconstruct most. Anyone interested?

Address of the author (might be inaccurate):
Peter D. Joseph, 2740 W. 233 St. Torrance, CA 90505.

If anyone knows an e-mail address, I'll gladly ask him if I can host his website.


Just wanted to say thanks for finding the links. The instruction looks good at first blush. BTW, the diagrams work on my browser (Google Chrome).
  

http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
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Paddy
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #24 - 02/01/10 at 17:14:31
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Lovuschka wrote on 02/01/10 at 08:29:44:
theoretical wrote on 07/15/09 at 22:30:51:
The original link

     http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PDJoseph/masteryinchess.htm

does not work anymore.  I tried Google cache and Internet Archive, but was unsuccessful.  Any suggestion?


Try again:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071120234620/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071121013705/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071121234020/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071209230452/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20070824084242/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20070826164425/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071108232259/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...

Of course, the diagrams are gone but I think one should be able to reconstruct most. Anyone interested?

Address of the author (might be inaccurate):
Peter D. Joseph, 2740 W. 233 St. Torrance, CA 90505.

If anyone knows an e-mail address, I'll gladly ask him if I can host his website.


You found it! Great. Thanks!
  
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Lovuschka
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #23 - 02/01/10 at 08:29:44
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theoretical wrote on 07/15/09 at 22:30:51:
The original link

     http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PDJoseph/masteryinchess.htm

does not work anymore.  I tried Google cache and Internet Archive, but was unsuccessful.  Any suggestion?


Try again:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071120234620/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071121013705/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071121234020/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071209230452/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20070824084242/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20070826164425/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...
http://web.archive.org/web/20071108232259/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepag...

Of course, the diagrams are gone but I think one should be able to reconstruct most. Anyone interested?

Address of the author (might be inaccurate):
Peter D. Joseph, 2740 W. 233 St. Torrance, CA 90505.

If anyone knows an e-mail address, I'll gladly ask him if I can host his website.
  
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theoretical
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #22 - 07/15/09 at 22:30:51
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The original link

     http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PDJoseph/masteryinchess.htm

does not work anymore.  I tried Google cache and Internet Archive, but was unsuccessful.  Any suggestion?
  
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Ptero
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #21 - 11/22/06 at 20:36:31
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IMJohnCox wrote on 11/22/06 at 10:46:23:
And Anand lost the classical ending with three each on the kingside and an extra white a-pawn with the white rook in front of it and the black one behind, not from a remotely unusual position either. It’s a difficult game.


That one was irredeemable - Anand made several textbook errors to lose it. I was actually appalled by that game and it made me lose some faith with Anand.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #20 - 11/22/06 at 14:53:24
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Can everyone who is interested in Endgames please look at the Endgame poll section and add their 'two penny worth', please? Thanks Smiley
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #19 - 11/22/06 at 10:46:23
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It’s a lot more embarrassing to fail to win B&N v K, which is really unthinkable, than to lose R&B –v- R, which many grandmasters have done, including Nigel Short and Gufeld, to name only the first two who come to mind. And Gufeld was in the days of adjournments. Spare a thought for Ulf Andersson, who was Mecking’s second once when Mecking had to defend it. He had to spent the whole of one night analysing this ending, then give a tutorial on all the winning tries in the morning.

But of course in a blitz finish anything can happen.

Didn’t no less a person than Peter Svidler fail to win Q –v- R recently? And Anand lost the classical ending with three each on the kingside and an extra white a-pawn with the white rook in front of it and the black one behind, not from a remotely unusual position either. It’s a difficult game.
  
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micawber
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #18 - 11/22/06 at 03:36:04
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In Holland the N+B endgame was once a required item in youth training to get the final "King"-certificate.
As a trainer I knew this endgame quite well  Sad. However I am still waiting for the first serious game with this particular endgame.

In the adjournament "days" I also had to defend the f+h pawn  once. I actually think the adjournament was an advantage for the defender. The attacker can use different setups without risk, the defender is required to know several "only move" positions.
Smyslov is I think the only topplayer who defended this endgame succesfully 3 times! (Karpov 2 times!)

As for endgame mistakes: Carllsen 'managed' to loose a drawn R vs R+p endgame against Aronian in the Tall Memorial! This was a position he should have been able to draw on automatic pilot  Wink
  
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #17 - 11/21/06 at 22:13:54
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Well, it doesn't really surprise me 12bar, because I made a search in chessbase for won/drawn endings earlier on and I found a few games by strong players where they did not get the theoretical result . This includes
N+B, R+B vs. R, R+f-pawn+h-pawn vs. R, Queen vs. Rook and various rook-endings

N+B is embarassing for a good player to draw. R+B vs. R is embarassing to lose.

By the way, welcome to the forum.
« Last Edit: 11/22/06 at 08:05:43 by Klick »  

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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #16 - 11/21/06 at 16:38:11
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IMJohnCox wrote on 11/21/06 at 16:32:03:
Egad - really? Tough to believe. I've seen Keith Arkell bash this off in a blitz finish with about two minutes left on his clock, and he didn't use anything like all of that.

By contrast, I once had it in a tournament game back in the days of adjournments, in Norway in about 1980. I didn't have any literature with me, and my opponent, judging my capabilities accurately, adjourned not once but twice: 16 moves an hour in those days, of course. It took me about 36 hours in all, and about three hours actual playing time. The only game I've had which went into a third scoresheet.

With N+B vs lone king?
We used to practice that every club day with 3 mins vs 1.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #15 - 11/21/06 at 16:32:03
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Egad - really? Tough to believe. I've seen Keith Arkell bash this off in a blitz finish with about two minutes left on his clock, and he didn't use anything like all of that.

By contrast, I once had it in a tournament game back in the days of adjournments, in Norway in about 1980. I didn't have any literature with me, and my opponent, judging my capabilities accurately, adjourned not once but twice: 16 moves an hour in those days, of course. It took me about 36 hours in all, and about three hours actual playing time. The only game I've had which went into a third scoresheet.
  
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12barblues
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #14 - 11/21/06 at 14:24:48
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IMJohnCox wrote on 11/21/06 at 10:49:45:
You mean a sort of test, like the theory test element in the driving test? ...........I can assure you it would cut the number of IMs in the world by about 98%.


And not just IM's!  I received my copy of Beliavsky's 'Modern Endgame Practice' this morning and, before you could say (or in my case, probably, spell) schadenfreude, I turned to a chapter entitled 'Shameful Mistakes'.  Pride of place goes to Epishin trying to mate with K,B and N vs K in the 'wrong' corner  Shocked  Other (dis)honourable mentions are given to Lengyel, Hoang Trang and Gufeld who also failed to win this ending.

I can't express just how much pleasure this kind of thing brings to those of us in the lower orders of the chess world!  Grin

12bar
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #13 - 11/21/06 at 13:14:20
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Btw: Congrats John, on breaking the 500 post barrier.  You may well be the first IM to get so addicted to this place!

  Smiley
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Rook, f + h pawns -v- rook
Reply #12 - 11/21/06 at 13:11:20
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Standardization in education has become a buzzsaw.  I mean buzzword.  Parents and data crunchers love that sort of standardized test to prove that children aren't learning enough.  Teachers obviously don't know if students actually learn anything.

Why not use that sort of test in chess?  Heck, we can go one step farther:  set Fritz (or a series of computers) at 2500 elo.  Then have a candidate for the IM title score a + score out of ten games in a 2 week period.  Then we could do away with norms!

Of course, the ultimate goal will be to do away with humans and human interaction entirely.  The world must certainly a better place without all those luddites about anyway, right?
  
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