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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Budapest Ideas (Read 61529 times)
TopNotch
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #148 - 11/05/07 at 00:51:15
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I must admit to having a soft spot for the Budapest Gambit, as I consider it a surprising and useful drawing weapon and sometimes more,  to have in ones repertoire.

I have only quickly scanned this long thread but noticed a lot attention paid to some Nb1 idea and wondered whether the following position was discussed:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. Bf4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bb4+ 6. Nbd2 Qe7 7. e3 Ngxe5 8. Nxe5 Nxe5 9. Be2 O-O 10. O-O Ng6!? I think this idea is woth a go, pre-empting any Nb1 ideas by White. 11. Bg3 [11.Bxc7?? loses a piece to d6] Bd6! The real point behind 10...Ng6 12. Bxd6 Qxd6 with a solid position.

Good news for Budapest fans is the appearance of a new book on this opening entitled The Fabulous Budapest Gambit by V. Moskalenko.

Lets hope this new book is as inspiring as the title suggests.

Toppy Smiley
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #147 - 09/06/07 at 21:01:19
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I know this thread got off-track for a while and that I'm partially responsible for that.  My apologies for that.

Even so, at the time of writing this has ten pages of notes and should help with any current discussion of the Budapest.

Cheers!
  
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #146 - 08/19/07 at 00:02:40
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Who's attaking whom?
  

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THEMOVE
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #145 - 08/18/07 at 13:42:27
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I tried to play the duch opening,because you can play it against 1.d4 and also against 1.c4.
"THEMOVE ,please stop to post things with the intention to attak someone,I am bland that you praised me,but I dont want to see anymore posts with the intention to attak someone."
Grin You fight for the justice  Grin
But you can believe me that I had no intent to attak SF .
I am new here and I wanted to tell my opinion .
Sorry SF Wink
  
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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #144 - 08/18/07 at 09:24:00
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THEMOVE wrote on 08/17/07 at 21:54:47:
Grin Smyslov_Fan seems really to dislike Udav18.
Well I have read all the posts here to know the status quo and to me it seems really that Smyslov_Fan attaks Udav all the time,without any reason.I have to say that Udav18 did really a hard and good job to defend the Buderpester and SF seems not to like the idea that the Bpg could be reanimated. Grin Grin
But at least he was right this opening isnt really a strong weapon against good players.
I played it also for a few years and played it against 3 Im's and 2 GM's Grin(Isnt that stupid? Grin)
Well the score was 1,5-3,5  for them Cry but I am happy that this had happened.So I was forced to quit this opening and to try a solid opening.



Yes,I was not able to inspirit the Bpg .What opening did you try after you stoped to play the Bpg?

Seems that the mood didnt change here since I was away for a few days.
Smyslov_Fan I want to stop our disagreement here and now,because your last post went too far.

THEMOVE ,please stop to post things with the intention to attak someone,I am bland that you praised me,but I dont want to see anymore posts with the intention to attak someone.
  
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THEMOVE
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #143 - 08/18/07 at 08:51:15
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Grin  A complot?  Grin
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #142 - 08/18/07 at 01:59:38
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I don't mind being attacked for comments I make, but this is strange.

THEMOVE and Udav make the same spelling and grammatical mistakes.
  
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THEMOVE
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #141 - 08/17/07 at 21:54:47
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Grin Smyslov_Fan seems really to dislike Udav18.
Well I have read all the posts here to know the status quo and to me it seems really that Smyslov_Fan attaks Udav all the time,without any reason.I have to say that Udav18 did really a hard and good job to defend the Buderpester and SF seems not to like the idea that the Bpg could be reanimated. Grin Grin
But at least he was right this opening isnt really a strong weapon against good players.
I played it also for a few years and played it against 3 Im's and 2 GM's Grin(Isnt that stupid? Grin)
Well the score was 1,5-3,5  for them Cry but I am happy that this had happened.So I was forced to quit this opening and to try a solid opening.

  
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MNb
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #140 - 08/14/07 at 21:33:32
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I am sorry Udav, but I have to contradict you. Just reread this post.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/07/07 at 21:16:07:
I still feel a lot of animas in this thread.  If there's any way to become more objective and not feel like this is personal, this may be a more fruitful discussion.


S_F never tries to anger anybody here on the forum. I am sometimes guilty of this and so are a few others, but not S_F.
Hey, S_F is even trying to help you switching to the Slav. I am sure, he will provide you with a lot of information about this, when you open a new thread. He knows quite a bit about it!
Why don't you just try? With a little luck you get Fluffy (David Vigorito) involved as well.

Keep up the good work. Big chance S_F and you will become good friends.
  

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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #139 - 08/14/07 at 15:56:05
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/14/07 at 13:20:17:
I've played 1.c4 c6 as Black for quite some time and have very rarely faced 1...e4.  From a practical perspective, if you just review some of the ideas behind the Panov-Botvinnik you'll be fine. 

It's interesting that despite all your comments to the contrary, even you admit that the Budapest isn't good enough to play against strong opposition.  I have a feeling that many of the difficulties you and I have had, Udav, have been due to our not understanding each other.  I'm beginning to gather that when you say that something is "better" for Black, you just mean that it's playable. Is this right?


I never had any difficulties with you,you just allways tried to anger me,no matter what was said.If someone said something against a variation I had shown ,you felt allways that this had to be backed with some annoying posts,which are directed against me.
But I am not angry with you about this,I just exploited your corrupt posts to exersise my english language for the Abitur Wink ,so in fact I have to thank you . Smiley (one advice: If you have some problems with someone here,just send him a personal message not to distract all the members here)
Also I have never said that black is better ,if white plays the best moves(Or do you see any post,where I said such stupid think?)
There was only one interessting line,where black was slight better,because white played not acurate enough.
At least I have to say,that the Bpg is an interessting opening,which has some advantages(black can win really quickly,if white dont know how to play against it)
But if white does know how to play, it will be difficult for black to hold the resulting positions unless black is a comp.
As I am too bad to find such good moves for black like a comp. I want to swich to some other opening and hopefully I will have a chance to use the Bpg against some weak player in a tournament not to have done all this work for nothing.
I wish you all good luck in your chesscareer and maybe some day I will read in the news,that some guy here used our discussed ideas to defeat a GM  Wink
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #138 - 08/14/07 at 13:20:17
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I've played 1.c4 c6 as Black for quite some time and have very rarely faced 1...e4.  From a practical perspective, if you just review some of the ideas behind the Panov-Botvinnik you'll be fine. 

It's interesting that despite all your comments to the contrary, even you admit that the Budapest isn't good enough to play against strong opposition.  I have a feeling that many of the difficulties you and I have had, Udav, have been due to our not understanding each other.  I'm beginning to gather that when you say that something is "better" for Black, you just mean that it's playable. Is this right?
  
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MNb
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #137 - 08/14/07 at 10:00:38
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Yes, but it is only universal when you combine it with the Caro-Kann: 1.c4 c6 2.e4.
  

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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #136 - 08/14/07 at 09:33:48
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Sorry,I will not have much time any more to analyze the Bpg ,because I have to learn for Abitur a lot now,also I will have to play in the first Team ,of my chessclub next year and ,because of this I need a solid repertoire for black now.
The Bpg will not be good enough against my oponents next year.I want to switch now to a better +universal opening.
Do you think that Slav is a good option?
  
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #135 - 08/13/07 at 01:11:28
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Udav18 wrote on 08/12/07 at 10:46:02:
Jea,I played this plan myself,but black can only hope for a draw in my view,it was really difficult to organize an attack,and if I was able to create one,white could always trade the e5-Night and blacks attack was too weak.
What i am looking for is a plan which gives black equal chances.
Here is also an example what can happen ,if black take on c3 later.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. Bf4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bb4+ 6.Nc3 Qe7 7. Qd5 f6 8. exf6 Nxf6 9. Qd3 d6 10. e3 O-O 11. Be2 Ne4 12. O-O Bxc3
13. bxc3 Bf5 14. Qd5+ Kh8 15. Rac1 g5 16. Bg3 h5 17. Nd4 Bg6 18. f3 Nxg3 19.
hxg3 Qxe3+ 20. Kh2 Bf7 21. Qe4 Rae8 22. Qxe3 Rxe3 23. Rc2 Nxd4 24. cxd4 Rxe2
25. Rxe2 Bxc4 26. Rfe1 Bxe2 27. Rxe2 Kg7 28. Kg1 Kf7 29. Kf2 Re8 30. Rb2 b6 31.
f4 Re4 32. Rd2 Kf6 33. fxg5+ Kxg5 34. Kf3 d5 35. Rc2 Rxd4 36. Rxc7 Rd3+ 37. Kf2
Rd2+ 38. Ke3 Rxa2 39. Rg7+ Kf6 40. Rh7 Kg6 41. Re7 Ra1 42. Kd4 Rd1+ 43. Kc3 Rg1
44. Re2 Kf5 45. Kd4 Rd1+ 46. Ke3 d4+ 47. Kf2 a5 48. Rb2 a4 49. Rxb6 a3 50. Ra6
Ra1 51. Ke2 a2 52. Kd2 Rg1 0-1

After the move 10.g3! I think a good plan for black might also be Nc5 and Nca5.

Scholar,what Rating do you have?You seem to know a lot about the Bpg.


Udav, I think you've mentioned at least the stem of this game before.  However, it doesn't show that there is any independent merit in delaying the capture on c3, because the position on the board after 13.bxc3 is a transposition to similar lines after 6...Bxc3.  Do you see this?  It may be that this line is slightly better than what Black usually gets, but that's because White has made some mistakes.

Indeed, the idea of delaying capture on c3 is flawed.  White can obtain a better game simply by preventing his c-pawn from being doubled.  He has many opportunities to do this, from 7.Rc1 (of independent interest, although protecting the knight with the queen is also possible) to 11.0-0-0 (when White retains his structure and the pawn).  Even 11.Nd2 is probably better than Be2, for the same reason.  Look at some games and try to convince yourself of this fact.   If you're unconvinced, you should be able to give concrete reasons.

The Budapest (at least with 3...Ng4 -- I know almost nothing about 3...Ne4 lines) is not a good opening to play if you are determined to avoid positions with no chances for simplified material.  Often, White has the opportunity to force (say) the exchange of queens and three pairs of minor pieces.  Of course, there are not many openings where Black can force complications without taking the worst of it, at least to some extent.

As for myself, I am an amateur; the Budapest is just one of the few openings I have analyzed in detail.

I think I'll take a few days break from posting in this thread to give you some time to look through what I've written.
  
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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #134 - 08/12/07 at 10:46:02
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Jea,I played this plan myself,but black can only hope for a draw in my view,it was really difficult to organize an attak,and if I was able to create one,white could allways trade the e5-Night and blacks attak was to weak.
What i am looking for is a plan which gives black equal chances.
Here is also an example what can happen ,if black take on c3 later.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. Bf4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bb4+ 6.Nc3 Qe7 7. Qd5 f6 8. exf6 Nxf6 9. Qd3 d6 10. e3 O-O 11. Be2 Ne4 12. O-O Bxc3
13. bxc3 Bf5 14. Qd5+ Kh8 15. Rac1 g5 16. Bg3 h5 17. Nd4 Bg6 18. f3 Nxg3 19.
hxg3 Qxe3+ 20. Kh2 Bf7 21. Qe4 Rae8 22. Qxe3 Rxe3 23. Rc2 Nxd4 24. cxd4 Rxe2
25. Rxe2 Bxc4 26. Rfe1 Bxe2 27. Rxe2 Kg7 28. Kg1 Kf7 29. Kf2 Re8 30. Rb2 b6 31.
f4 Re4 32. Rd2 Kf6 33. fxg5+ Kxg5 34. Kf3 d5 35. Rc2 Rxd4 36. Rxc7 Rd3+ 37. Kf2
Rd2+ 38. Ke3 Rxa2 39. Rg7+ Kf6 40. Rh7 Kg6 41. Re7 Ra1 42. Kd4 Rd1+ 43. Kc3 Rg1
44. Re2 Kf5 45. Kd4 Rd1+ 46. Ke3 d4+ 47. Kf2 a5 48. Rb2 a4 49. Rxb6 a3 50. Ra6
Ra1 51. Ke2 a2 52. Kd2 Rg1 0-1

After the move 10.g3! I think a good plan for black might also be Nc5 and Nca5.

Scholar,what Rating do you have?You seem to know a lot about the Bpg.
  
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