So I am really proud of the fresh very new lines,which show that the Bdpg is a solid opening.Now I want to have a look at the line with Nd2 instead of Nc3 after Bb4+.
This line has the repetiton that white gets a slight and solid advantage.
What I know now are just a few games with this line,which show some ideas for black.
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe Ng4 4.Bf4 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bb4+  6. Nd2 Qe7 7. a3 (there are moves like 7.e3 ,too)
Nxe5(It doesnt really matter what night will capture on e5) 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9. e3 Bxd2 10. Qxd2 d6 11. Be2 and now there are two different and interessting plans.
-attaking on the Kingside without castling
-castle +b6+Bb7 and try to find some ways to compensate the strong plan by white to push the c-pawn and create weaknesses
Before I will show the games with this ideas,I want to know,wether there are also some other ideas for black.

I am really sorry,I tried to improve a line,without taking on c3 and I was close to fine a variation ,where black can equalize,but after
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe Ng4 4.Bf4 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bb4+ 6.Nc3 Qe7 7.Qd5 f6 8.exf Nxf 9. Qd3 0-0 10. g3 Ne4 11. Bg2 d6 12. 0-0 Nxc3 13. bxc Bf5 there is the very strong move e4!!,which was found after a few minutes by Rybka.
The idea is to give up a pawn,but than black will have to many problems,because now not only the king is weakend but also the diagonal h1-a8 and the e-file is open.White is well developed and in such an open position black has no chance to equalize
I have never played g5!? after Bf4.Is here anybody who play it?
Maybe g5 is at least ok for black.

OK now lets continue our discussion of the BpG here.

Check out the game below for one approach.  Of course, White made mistakes, but the plan by Black seems quite reasonable.  Unless White can play b4 (and certainly 14.b4 is on the table -- it may even be the best move) his queenside play is basically shut down once he forgoes c5.

Just look over some games, both in this particular position and others (there aren't too many Budapest games played at a high level) to get a feel for the middlegame maneuvering.  Most reasonable-looking moves lead to reasonable positions here, so a lot of the play depends on personal preference.  It is perfectly possible for forego kingside play as well; Bb6/d6 fit together well, as do b6/Bb7...

Mikhalevski,V (2525) - Chabanon,J (2445) [A52]
Bad Endbach Bad Endbach, 1995

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.Bf4 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bb4+ 6.Nbd2 Qe7 7.e3 Ngxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.Be2 0-0 10.0-0 a5 11.Nb3 a4 12.a3 Bd6 13.Nd4 Bc5 14.Nb5 d6 15.Nc3 Ng6 16.Bg3 f5 17.Bf3 Qe8 18.Qc2 Ne5 19.Be2 Be6 20.Nb5 Qf7 21.Bxe5 dxe5 22.Qc3 Rae8 23.Qxe5 Bxc4 24.Qxc5 Bxe2 25.Rfe1 b6 26.Qc6 Re6 27.Qd5 c6 28.Nd6 Qg6 29.Qxf5 Rxf5 30.Nxf5 Qxf5 31.Rxe2 Qd3 32.Rae1 c5 33.e4 b5 34.e5 g5 35.Re3 Qd4 36.R3e2 b4 37.axb4 cxb4 38.h3 b3 39.Kf1 Kg7 40.Kg1 Kg6 41.g4 h5 42.gxh5+ Kxh5 43.Kh2 Kg6 44.Kg2 Kf5 45.Kg3 a3 46.bxa3 b2 47.Rb1 Qd3+ 0-1

[quote author=Uberdeker link=1159148601/30#34 date=1160769725]Dear Scholar,

  Very nice variation you thought up there. Perhaps Black is even slightly better due to his control of the d-file. I must say though that the manoeuvre 16. Qe1/17. Qd1 creates a very odd impression.
Perhaps Black also has earlier deviations, such as delaying 7. ...Ktgxe5 and castling first.

                            Regards,
                               Hubert[/quote]
Thanks.

What is the idea behind delaying Ngxe5 with 7...0-0?  It seems like Black can't avoid transposing to the usual lines after 8.Be2 and 8.a3 gives White an improved version of the delayed a3 lines -- Black usually plays d6 before castling to prevent a quick c5, a resource which is denied him in this move order.

To my eyes, the only deviations from the Black side of this line that seem possible are at move 6 and move 10 (or later).

Hello,

thx for that interesting line with 17..d6 !?!? I didnt calculate this move at all. To give back Material is always out of my mind
I agree, that Black can equalize the Game. White can only hope for an advantage with the bishoppair, but i dont believe

So i have to intensify the Line after 12...Bd6. I will tell u soon....

Regards

Hello,

after 10...a5 follows 11.Nb3-a4 12.a3-Bd6 13. c5(!?)-Bxc5 14.Nxc5-Qxc5 15.Rc1-Qa5 16.Qe1-c6 and now 17.Qd1 causes Black Headache with the black Squares. And what to do with the Bc8 ?!

Regards

Hello,

I really dont know what the Problem for White. All Lines are at least +=, take a look:
1.d4-Nf6 2.c4-e5 3.dxe5-Ng4 4.Lf4(!) - Nc6 5.Nf3-Bb4+ 6. Nbd2-Qe7 7. e3(!) - Ngxe5 8. Nxe5-Nxe5
9. Be2-00 10. 00 - Bxd2 11.Qxd2-d6 12. b4 and only White is fine...

On 4....g5(?!) simply follows 5.Bd2 with the Idee Bc3 and g5 becomes just a weakness
On 5...f6 follows 6.exf6 -Qxf6 7. Qd2 ! +=

The Fajarowicz-Line after 3...Ne4 looks interesting at first look, but then it seems to be not satisfactionable.
4.Nf3-Bb4+ 5.Bd2-Nxd2 6.Nxd2-Nc6 7.a3-Bxd2 8.Dxd2-Qe7 9.Qc3 looks fine for white. If Black castles long,
then there is easy continuation for White 9...b6 10.Rd1-Bb7 11.e3-000 12.Be2-Rhe8 13.Rd5-Na5 14.b4(!) +-

If Black castles short white plays on d7. 9...00 10.Rd1-Re8 11.Rd5-b6 12.g3-Bb7 13.Bh3-Tad8 14.00-Na5
15.Rd2-Nc6 16.Rfd1 looks awful for Black.

Any Questions?

Regards