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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Budapest Ideas (Read 67575 times)
MNb
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #73 - 08/02/07 at 20:51:47
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Udav18 wrote on 08/02/07 at 13:29:12:
11.Ng3 is not a bad move,it has agreat idea.It is designed to play a3 and make weaknesses on the QS for black by exchanging the Bishop,if black castl short.
So the variation B is also one of the main continuations.
Also it was played against me by a player with 2112 Elo and 2200


You know, it would help if you would repeat the first 10 moves now and then. There is a chance, that I will get interested in the near future and then it is a bit annoying to have to look up how to reach this position.
Moreover you raise the chances, that we still will understand you in case of typos like 11.Ng3 iso 11.Nb3.

Thanks.  Wink
  

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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #72 - 08/02/07 at 14:59:22
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So Chessguy you want to analyze the appearing positions?It wolud be really nice of you.
What I can say now is that this positions are just as any other sharp position with different castlingsides.
I have played them a few times against people in the internet and against Fritz 10 and black has indeed good chances.
The difficulty is to know when you have to attak and when to play devensive moves.But my games so far were full of mistakes on both sides and because of this they arent really usefull to show them here.
I want to start an mach between Rybka2.3.2 and Frit10 ,where they have to start from positions a ,b and c .It will take a few days maybe.I will show maybe some of them.
But for now lets analyze a.
  
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Chessguy
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #71 - 08/02/07 at 14:48:47
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He he Udav18, that was about time..
  
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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #70 - 08/02/07 at 14:25:17
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Sorry I meant of course Nb3 Grin Grin Grin
I just play all the varitions in my brain and sometimes I just barter the letters or the numbers Grin
So b is 11.Nb3 and not Ng3.
Sorry again for this confusion.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #69 - 08/02/07 at 13:46:54
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Btw,

Your variation after 11.Nf3 shows that the idea of castling queenside is just bad.  You yourself use the computer to think for you and it castles kingside.  I'm not sure, but I think your line after 11.Nf3 transposes to other positions that have already been played.

I'll let you figure out for yourself why everyone is agreeing that 11.Ng3 is impossible.
  
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #68 - 08/02/07 at 13:39:32
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Where is your knight placed before it moves to g3?
  
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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #67 - 08/02/07 at 13:29:12
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11.Ng3 is not a bad move,it has agreat idea.It is designed to play a3 and make weaknesses on the QS for black by exchanging the Bishop,if black castl short.
So the variation B is also one of the main continuations.
Also it was played against me by a player with 2112 Elo and 2200
  
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Chessguy
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #66 - 08/02/07 at 09:55:00
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That variation B I would be grateful if you would just remove in future posts? (sic) is used for a typo only. I will comment on variations A and C though. I will in my next post call variation C for B and ignore your current variation B.
  
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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #65 - 08/02/07 at 09:01:43
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Because the idea was  castling QS and after Nf3 it is not considerable.
OK If you wish lets analyze
a 11.a3 Bxd2 12. Qxd2 0-0-0 
b 11.Ng3 (sic) 0-0-0 
c 11.Nf3 Ng6 12.Bg3 0-0

"Did you by the way put those two positions in the last post into your analysis engine?"

Yes,but in such kinds of positions I think the  value of an engine is useless.
Anyhow Rybka2.3.2 showes a: = 0.18
                                        b: = 0.12
                                        c: = 0.13
But this results play the real situation down.The appearing positions are really sharp and interessting.
  
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Chessguy
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #64 - 08/01/07 at 21:52:49
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I wonder why you didn't change Ng3 (sic) to Nf3 in your latest post. Did you by the way put those two positions in the last post into your analysis engine?
  
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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #63 - 08/01/07 at 20:43:02
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/01/07 at 18:36:56:
Regarding the practice of the Budapest:

Since 1996, the popularity of the Budapest has plummetted.  (Ok, it was never that popular to begin with.)  Since 1990, White has scored an impressive 60% when both players were rated over 2300 FIDE.  (40% White, 40% draws, 20% Black)

On White's Fourth Move (against 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.de5 Ng4):  White has played every possible e-push, including e5-e6!  His most popular response is 4.Nf3, with 4.Bf4 coming in second.

The line that Udav suggests is indeed fresh.

Looking just at the line he provided without suggesting any earlier improvements for White:


Quote:
After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe Ng4 4.Bf4 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bb4+  6. Nd2 Qe7 7.e3 Ngxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.Be2 how do you like the idea not to castle short,but to play an agressive 0-0-0 for an attak on the KS. E.g. 9...d6 10.0-0  Bd7!? 
a 11.a3 Bxd2 12. Qxd2 0-0-0
b 11.Ng3 (sic) 0-0-0


I don't like 11.a3 as it seems a waste of time here.

11.Ng3 is impossible. 

I prefer 11.Nf3 and if 0-0-0, Black is at least a pawn down after:  12.a3! (Now it has a point!) Nxf3+ (This has to be played sooner or later.  It will probably transpose to 12...Bc5 lines) 13.Bxf3 Bc5 14.b4 Bb6 15.a4 and White wins in overwhelming fashion.

Black's problem in this line is that he has targets on the Q-side that can be attacked instantly while Black's king-side attack is many moves away from being a threat.

Black can play better than to castle queenside immediately, but the B on b4 will still be a problem piece.  This is probably why the best players who have tried this defense castle kingside.


11.Nf3 is of course also possible Ng6 12.Bg3 0-0 Here White will have to play on the QS ,but if white will push too hard and will not prepare this attak properly,there is also the counterblow a5 with counterplay.There are also other ideas for black as playing on the KS and in the centre.
It is very interessting that I had seven times the position as black until move eleven and my oponents at the level of about 2100 Elo
had choose five times 11.a3 and two times 11. Ng3 ,so I didnt look at othe posiiblities.
But anyhow it would be interessting to see how games might develop after
a 11.a3 Bxd2 12. Qxd2 0-0-0
b 11.Ng3 (sic) 0-0-0

I have never played 0-0-0 here,because it seemed to me too dangerous,but a few weeks ago I analyzed a game with 11.a3 and analyzed a little bit 0-0-0 and it looks like black has really good chances for a successfull attak.But I am not sure,yet.
  
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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #62 - 08/01/07 at 20:19:20
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No,my trainer was a GM some time,but now he isnt a professional trainer anymore.He isnt really known and was rated 2500 at his best times.
Arkadij Naiditsch is just a friend and when I asked him some time about the Bpg,if it is really so bad,he just asked me,if I believe in this opening.I said yes.And he answered that than this opening is good for me.
It sounds a little bit strange,but in some way he is right.By the way my trainer was also not playing the Bpg ,because he is a player with a different style.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #61 - 08/01/07 at 18:44:10
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Btw: Udav has said that his trainer is a GM, and that his friend is Arkady Naiditsch. I may be wrong, but perhaps GM Naiditsch is your coach?  I'd really like to know why GM Naiditsch said he would play the Budapest as Black and yet has never, never played it in serious competition? 

GM Naiditsch started out playing Queen's Gambits Declined (notably D52) and later switched to Grunfelds, King's Indians, Nimzos and Queen's Indians.  But I have not seen a single game in which he played the Budapest.
  
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #60 - 08/01/07 at 18:36:56
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Regarding the practice of the Budapest:

Since 1996, the popularity of the Budapest has plummetted.  (Ok, it was never that popular to begin with.)  Since 1990, White has scored an impressive 60% when both players were rated over 2300 FIDE.  (40% White, 40% draws, 20% Black)

On White's Fourth Move (against 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.de5 Ng4):  White has played every possible e-push, including e5-e6!  His most popular response is 4.Nf3, with 4.Bf4 coming in second.

The line that Udav suggests is indeed fresh.

Looking just at the line he provided without suggesting any earlier improvements for White:


Quote:
After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe Ng4 4.Bf4 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bb4+  6. Nd2 Qe7 7.e3 Ngxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.Be2 how do you like the idea not to castle short,but to play an agressive 0-0-0 for an attak on the KS. E.g. 9...d6 10.0-0  Bd7!? 
a 11.a3 Bxd2 12. Qxd2 0-0-0
b 11.Ng3 (sic) 0-0-0


I don't like 11.a3 as it seems a waste of time here.

11.Ng3 is impossible. 

I prefer 11.Nf3 and if 0-0-0, Black is at least a pawn down after:  12.a3! (Now it has a point!) Nxf3+ (This has to be played sooner or later.  It will probably transpose to 12...Bc5 lines) 13.Bxf3 Bc5 14.b4 Bb6 15.a4 and White wins in overwhelming fashion.

Black's problem in this line is that he has targets on the Q-side that can be attacked instantly while Black's king-side attack is many moves away from being a threat.

Black can play better than to castle queenside immediately, but the B on b4 will still be a problem piece.  This is probably why the best players who have tried this defense castle kingside.
  
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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Ideas
Reply #59 - 08/01/07 at 16:57:27
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Here are some new and fresh ideas.
After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe Ng4 4.Bf4 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bb4+  6. Nd2 Qe7 7.e3 Ngxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.Be2 how do you like the idea not to castle short,but to play an agressive 0-0-0 for an attak on the KS. E.g. 9...d6 10.0-0  Bd7!?
a 11.a3 Bxd2 12. Qxd2 0-0-0
b 11.Ng3 0-0-0
That seem to be interessting and dignified to be analyzed.
I am not sure,but I think I have seen this idea in a game,but I cant remember where , when and by whom^^
So here is the invitation to analyze this a bit.
I will be away for a while maybe someone of you will find a new main line for black in this variation with 0-0-0.
Good Luck Cool
  
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