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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C28: Best white Vienna continuation here? (Read 8372 times)
Darthmambo
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #12 - 04/26/07 at 02:42:10
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Willempie wrote on 09/29/06 at 18:38:29:
Hippie wrote on 09/29/06 at 16:27:47:
I ordered TJ's book on the bishop's gambit this morning, so I'll play around with that for a few months and if I'm happy, I'll give it its tournament debut.

And thus TJ turned another Jedi to the dark side of the force Grin


With all this dark side of the force talk, I thought I should say something, lol.

Seriously, I used to play the Vienna with Bishop c4 and did not like the lines that black gets my bishop right away. Maybe you should try f4 on move 3, it is not too bad. Or you can try stuff like e4, bc4, d3, and f4.
  
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MNb
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #11 - 03/28/07 at 02:17:10
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Yeah, only after 3...d5/7.Ne2 I am not aware of any game White playing f2-f4. Neither do I know any game after 3...d5/7.Ne2 or 7.Nf3 where Black castles queenside. Looks very risky to me with the White rook on b1 and the bishop on g2.
  
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KampongBoy
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #10 - 03/27/07 at 06:14:38
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MNb wrote on 09/29/06 at 11:23:02:
It never has been clear to me, after 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 d5 4.exd5 Nxd5 5.Bg2 Nxc3 6.bxc3 c6/Nc6/Nd7/Bc5/Bd6/Be7, what the relative merits are of 7.Ne2 and 7.Nf3. The latter may transpose to the Glek System.


With 7. Ne2 it is easier to get in f4.
With 7. Nf3  it is easier to stop ...h5/h4 shots when white has castled Kingside and Black has not.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #9 - 09/29/06 at 18:56:18
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Willempie wrote on 09/29/06 at 18:38:29:
Hippie wrote on 09/29/06 at 16:27:47:
I ordered TJ's book on the bishop's gambit this morning, so I'll play around with that for a few months and if I'm happy, I'll give it its tournament debut.

And thus TJ turned another Jedi to the dark side of the force Grin


Cheesy Well, the dark side is the stronger one - and without Darth Vader who would watch Star Wars?!

Though, I must say that Darth Hippie found his way pretty much on his own! - All I did was point out that the 4Ns with g3 may be the best one can get from the Vienna. Actually it was you, Darth Willempie, that may have caused it by mentioning the KG!  Grin
  
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Willempie
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #8 - 09/29/06 at 18:38:29
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Hippie wrote on 09/29/06 at 16:27:47:
I ordered TJ's book on the bishop's gambit this morning, so I'll play around with that for a few months and if I'm happy, I'll give it its tournament debut.

And thus TJ turned another Jedi to the dark side of the force Grin
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #7 - 09/29/06 at 16:27:47
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Willempie wrote on 09/29/06 at 06:42:45:

No not really. The Vienna has too many easy equalising lines (for example the move Na5 is often an easy equaliser and an experienced player will know this). I think you would be better of with the King's gambit, which also equalises for black but gives more active play (but is more theory), the Italian (also equalising, but there is the c3, d3 system, which gives a bit slow but active play) or the Scotch (considered the best of the non-Ruys).


Yeah, the KG is another opening I've been playing around with.  I keep getting myself into trouble, but I enjoy the positions and the analysis.  I can't say the same for the Ruy or the Scotch, so I'm avoiding those, though thanks all the same for the recommendation.  I ordered TJ's book on the bishop's gambit this morning, so I'll play around with that for a few months and if I'm happy, I'll give it its tournament debut.

Thanks to all for your time.
  
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MNb
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #6 - 09/29/06 at 11:23:02
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It never has been clear to me, after 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3 d5 4.exd5 Nxd5 5.Bg2 Nxc3 6.bxc3 c6/Nc6/Nd7/Bc5/Bd6/Be7, what the relative merits are of 7.Ne2 and 7.Nf3. The latter may transpose to the Glek System.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #5 - 09/29/06 at 08:32:42
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Thanks for having the sensitivity of not including my loss against Glek from a few months ago! Embarrassed
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #4 - 09/29/06 at 08:23:36
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The Glek system isn't too bad. I did a search on 'both over 2400' and so far this year white seems to have +3 =1 -0  Shocked

Play thru these and see if it feels alright to play without a Bishop on c4.

Galego,L (2538) - Fressinet,L (2625) [C47]
XXII Open Reykjavik ISL (9), 14.03.2006

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.g3 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 Nxc3 7.bxc3 Bd6 8.0-0 0-0 9.d3 Bg4 10.Qe1 Qd7 11.Rb1 Rab8 12.Qe4 Bf5 13.Qe2 Rfe8 14.Ng5 Be7 15.Re1 h6 16.Ne4 Be6 17.a4 f5 18.Nd2 Bd5 19.Bh3 Bd6 20.Ne4 Qf7 21.Nxd6 cxd6 22.Bb2 Nd8 23.Ba3 Bc6 24.Bg2 Bxg2 25.Kxg2 Qd7 26.Qf3 Nf7 27.Rb5 Kh8 28.c4 b6 29.h4 f4 30.Bb2 fxg3 31.fxg3 Rf8 32.Rf1 Qe7 33.Qe4 Rbe8 34.Ba3 Qd7 35.a5 bxa5 36.Rxa5 Kg8 37.Ra6 Re6 38.Ra5 Rb8 39.Qg4 Rbe8 40.Qe4 Rb8 41.Bc1 Nd8 42.Be3 Nc6 43.Ra6 Rc8 44.Rf2 Kh8 45.Ra1 Kg8 46.Raf1 a5 47.c3 a4 48.Ra1 Ne7 49.Qg4 Qc6+ 50.Kh2 Rg6 51.Qd1 e4 52.h5 Re6 53.Qg4 d5 54.Bd4 g5 55.Raf1 exd3 56.Rf7 Re2+ 57.Qxe2 dxe2 58.Rg7+ Kh8 59.Rxe7+ Kg8 60.Rg7+ Kh8 61.Rg6+ 1-0



Glek,I (2560) - Novikov,M (2489) [C47]
Geller Mem Moscow RUS (4), 06.05.2006

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.g3 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 Nxc3 7.bxc3 Bc5 8.0-0 0-0 9.d3 h6 10.Qe1 Re8 11.Be3 Bb6 12.Nd2 Be6 13.Nb3 Bxe3 14.fxe3 Bd5 15.Qf2 Re7 16.Nc5 b6 17.c4 Bxg2 18.Qxg2 Qd6 19.Ne4 Qe6 20.g4 Rf8 21.h4 f6 22.g5 fxg5 23.Rxf8+ Kxf8 24.hxg5 Rf7 25.Rf1 Ne7 26.gxh6 gxh6 27.Rxf7+ Kxf7 28.Kf2 Qg6 29.Qh2 Ke6 30.Qh4 c6 31.a4 Kd7 32.Ke1 Nf5 33.Qh3 Ke7 34.Kd2 h5 35.c5 Qg4 36.Qh2 Ke6 37.c4 Nh4 38.Kc3 Nf3 39.Qh1 Ke7 40.cxb6 axb6 41.c5 b5 42.a5 Kd8 43.a6 Kc8 44.Qa1 Qg1 45.Qa2 Qe1+ 46.Kb3 Qxe3 47.a7 Qxd3+ 48.Kb4 Qxe4+ 49.Ka5 Kb7 50.a8Q+ 1-0



Harikrishna,P (2682) - Erenburg,S (2585) [C26]
13th Ordix Open Mainz GER (5), 19.08.2006

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nc6 4.g3 Bc5 5.Bg2 d6 6.d3 h6 7.Na4 Bb6 8.Nxb6 axb6 9.0-0 0-0 10.h3 Re8 11.Re1 d5 12.exd5 Nxd5 13.d4 e4 14.Ne5 Nf6 15.Nxc6 bxc6 16.c4 Bf5 17.b3 Qd7 18.Kh2 Nh7 19.Be3 Ng5 20.Bxg5 hxg5 21.Qd2 f6 22.Re3 Rad8 23.Rd1 Kf7 24.g4 Bg6 25.Qe2 Qd6+ 26.Kg1 Qf4 27.d5 cxd5 28.cxd5 Qe5 29.Qc4 Kf8 30.Rd4 c5 31.Rd1 Rd6 32.a4 Kg8 33.a5 bxa5 34.Qxc5 Red8 35.Qxa5 Kh7 36.Qa4 Rxd5 37.Rxd5 Rxd5 38.Bxe4 Bxe4 39.Qxe4+ Qxe4 40.Rxe4 Rd3 41.Re3 Rd2 42.Kg2 Rb2 43.Kg3 Kh6 44.f4 gxf4+ 45.Kxf4 g6 46.h4 g5+ 47.hxg5+ fxg5+ 48.Ke5 Kg6 49.Kd5 Kf6 50.Kc5 Rc2+ 51.Kb5 Rf2 52.b4 Rf4 53.Rg3 Ke5 54.Kc5 Rf1 55.Rc3 Rd1 56.b5 Rd5+ 57.Kb4 Rd1 58.b6 Kd5 59.b7 1-0
  
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Willempie
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #3 - 09/29/06 at 06:42:45
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Hippie wrote on 09/28/06 at 16:43:04:

Is there any line here that promises anything for white?  Even active unclarity?

No not really. The Vienna has too many easy equalising lines (for example the move Na5 is often an easy equaliser and an experienced player will know this). I think you would be better of with the King's gambit, which also equalises for black but gives more active play (but is more theory), the Italian (also equalising, but there is the c3, d3 system, which gives a bit slow but active play) or the Scotch (considered the best of the non-Ruys).
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #2 - 09/28/06 at 21:55:04
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Drag.  Thanks for the info.  But I fear my love affair with the Vienna may be over before it begins. Sad

I could almost love 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. f4?! if not for ...Nxe4.
  
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MNb
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Re: Best white Vienna continuation here?
Reply #1 - 09/28/06 at 20:19:34
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Tseitlin and Glaskov in their book on the Vienna think 5.Nge2 best, arguing that the outpost on d5 is more important than the two bishops. I think Black completely equalizes with delaying the capture on c4 a bit.
This line is reason for me to prefer 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 Nc6 4.Nf3 (iso 4.Nc3).
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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C28: Best white Vienna continuation here?
09/28/06 at 16:43:04
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1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. d3 Na5

...and now?  I don't play the Vienna yet.  Looking at it as I move to an e4 rep.  I like the activity of the 3. Bc4 lines in general, but this specific line troubles me.  I've mostly been playing Fritzy so far, and like best the 5. Bb3 continuation, where the Knight capture on b3 allows me to open the a-file for my rook, but I haven't been finding many opportunities to use this open file to any advantage, and so Bb3 has mostly been little more than a defacto tempo-loss for me, I'm afraid.

Is there any line here that promises anything for white?  Even active unclarity?

TIA

« Last Edit: 09/21/11 at 06:20:24 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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