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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas (Read 7863 times)
Teyko
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #18 - 10/23/06 at 15:34:15
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Edward_Dearing wrote on 10/23/06 at 11:44:47:
Teyko - law school? Really? Don't do it man...



Hey Edward,

Man, I just finished my Ph.D and have some spare time so law school looks good. Is there something you need to warn me about?
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #17 - 10/23/06 at 12:45:48
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Things are getting clearer! It seems that Tommy suggested 13...Nxc5 as an improvement on some previous analysis of Victor's and emailed Victor to point him to the post on the Forum. In his analysis of the game Avrukh-Bojkov in August 2005 Victor says: "As one of our readers pointed out" and then goes on to subject the position to further detailed analysis. I agree that it would have been nicer to replace 'reader' with Tommy's name, and I am happy to alter this in the archives.
As to Golubov then reproducing the analysis, all I can say is that my computer finds 13...Nxc5 almost instantly so it is quite possible that he found the move independently.
What worries me is the implication that copyrighted ChessPublishing.com material has been used by NIC - can anyone who has the articles in question check to see if there has been any copyright infringement, please?
  
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Edward_Dearing
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #16 - 10/23/06 at 11:44:47
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Teyko - law school? Really? Don't do it man...
  
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fluffy
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #15 - 10/23/06 at 01:35:37
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Tony

I believe the analysis is in NIC YB 76 and 78. I'll tell you how I came across this. I knew something about this funny move 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Na6 8.c5!? and while preparing for the US Championship early this year I had a look at it. Something in my head reminded me that I had seen a discussion of this move in the forum here. I went over a lot of the analysis and entered it into my files. teyko's analysis was quite good - clearly human + computer - which is the only way to look at sharp lines nowadays. I found some ideas here and there and had it all in Chessbase. I had also noticed that Viktor had put some of teyko's analysis on chesspublishing.com. I think in that thread I linked, teyko said that there had been two way communication with Viktor (forgive me if I am mistaken), and he was upset that he was not given credit for the work. Anyway, a few weeks later, I received NIC YB 76 and there was this article on 8.c5 by Viktor! I compared it to my notes and it was all of the same stuff. Kind of strange...

I believe that I have communicated with four chesspublishing.com "columnists" - Tony, Glenn, Jonathan, and Gary. I know none of them personally, but each and every one was interested in my analysis/games and put something on chesspublishing that I had mentioned. And each and every one gave me credit. Very professional. I don't think I'll be sharing any King's Indian ideas though...

I like this site a lot- not all of it is useful for me (I am an IM), but there are a lot of good little nuggets here. I should also mention that Renet's analysis on 13.Rxb7 in the Petroff from several months ago blows away what is in NIC YB 80 (which just came out). I believe the NIC article is by Skatchkov, who is a very good analyst, but it is clear that he doesn't subscribe to chesspublishing.com!
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #14 - 10/23/06 at 00:44:31
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I think that before we go accusing people of bad conduct we should first check that they have done anything wrong! Smiley
I will email Victor to ask him his version of events, but at the moment I can find no record of us having forwarded the said email containing analysis of the ...Na6 variation to him at all.
Which analysis was used in the NIC yearbooks?
  
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Teyko
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #13 - 10/22/06 at 22:54:47
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I think you are right TopNotch. I enjoy the debates and academic nature of the forums. As I am finishing school and going to law school, it is a stress free way to contribute to theory without having to travel to tournaments every week.

I am disappointed with Victor's behavior and his conduct, but the bottom line is that there are people in the world that don't represent the best aspects of the game. I don't play much so the forums, some correspondence games and just recreational playing are my outlets, but if he is chooses to advance his own career through the plagarism of other peoples ideas on chesspublishing's website and forum then I can only withdraw my support from the forums and arrest my correspondence with him on specific lines.

I would hope that with the recognition of Victor's behavior that members and other G.M's on the chesspublishing forum at least support this outcry. It seems to represent a bigger issue in the future of chesspublishing's forum and the stake some members have in chess publishing.com in terms of  participating, contributing and corresponding with G.M's. I mean honestly who will choose to give analysis and input that GM will take as their own just because chess publishers will give them the book contracts.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #12 - 10/21/06 at 00:50:27
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Its weird to claim someone elses analysis as your own, especially when that analysis is already posted on the web.

Lets hope that somewhere along the line that this was just a misunderstanding or the alternative is to keep your best ideas private until you get a chance to spring them in a rated game.

Toppy Smiley
  

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fluffy
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #11 - 10/20/06 at 13:12:30
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teyko's analysis can be found here: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1102984524

Mikhalevski also used teyko's analyisis in TWO New in Chess Yearbooks. Viktor is a nice guy in person, but it is hard to see this snub as an accident. I don't blame him for being sour.

Palliser's (excellent) Najdorf book quotes chesspublishing and gives credit to Kosten and myself for some analysis in a rare line in 6.Bg5. Giving credit where credit is due is the sign of a true professional!

  
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #10 - 10/20/06 at 09:39:40
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Teyko, agreed, that's very poor behaviour. Would you mind posting your analysis here just to set the record straight as to which TNs really belong to you?
Changing tack slightly, IMO Mikhalevski covers the most theoretical lines each month. That's good for stronger subscribers, and KID afficionados, but club players could perhaps do with more general coverage, and coverage of more 'lesser' lines. I'm not sure, what do other subscribers think?
  
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Teyko
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #9 - 10/19/06 at 01:56:36
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In all due respect GM Kosten,

I emailed Victor as to the key variations, asked him what he thought of my ideas in a particular variation and then he ignored the debated material that I sent him along with my analysis and just posted my findings as his own. To top it off, the same analysis gets quoted in Mikal Golubev's book as if it were Mikalevski's.

Why am I displeased.

1) The effort I put into looking in the variation. I am a doctor not a G.M.
2) Even in the academy there is a such thing as academic courtesy. One gives credit where credit is due.
3) The variations that I email him about, just as all my specific questions go ignored.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #8 - 10/17/06 at 13:17:17
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Rather than moaning here, why don't you write to Victor to ask him to cover a particular variation? Smiley
Remember that the previous incumbents (Andy M, and particularly Joe Gallagher) were particularly pro the KID, so I think it is important to get another viewpoint, and we shouldn't forget that most subscribers will be looking at the section to see how to win as White against the KID! Shocked
  
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Jenny
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #7 - 10/14/06 at 14:29:07
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parisestmagique wrote on 10/11/06 at 15:24:52:
A lot of KID players are afraid of the variation : 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.b4 and you ?


There's really not that much to be afraid of concerning the Bayonet. Look how Kramnik got dispatched in the Bayonet here:

[Event "Russia vs The Rest of the World"]
[Site "Moscow RUS"]
[Date "2002.09.10"]
[Round "7"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Kramnik"]
[Black "Smirin"]
[ECO "E97"]
[WhiteElo "2807"]
[BlackElo "2676"]
[PlyCount "78"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8.
d5 Ne7 9. b4 Nh5 10. Re1 a5 11. bxa5 f5 12. Nd2 Nf6 13. c5 Rxa5 14. cxd6
cxd6 15. a4 Bh6 16. Ba3 Bxd2 17. Qxd2 fxe4 18. Bb5 Bf5 19. h3 Ra8 20. g4
Bc8 21. Nxe4 Nxe4 22. Rxe4 Bd7 23. Bf1 Bxa4 24. Bb4 b5 25. Ra3 Rc8 26. Rc3
Qb6 27. Bg2 Rxc3 28. Bxc3 Bb3 29. Re1 Bc4 30. Ba5 Qb7 31. Rd1 Rf4 32. Bc3
Bb3 33. Bxe5 dxe5 34. d6 Qd7 35. Rc1 Bc4 36. Qb4 Nc8 37. Qc5 Nxd6 38. Qxe5
Rf8 39. Rd1 Nf7 0-1

Also, look at the encounters between Kramnik and Gelfand in the Bayonet. Kramnik ever even came close to beating Gelfand in it.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #6 - 10/12/06 at 00:16:13
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Teyko wrote on 10/11/06 at 21:46:16:
I think that the K.I.D is still a legitimate defense and its use by various Grand masters demonstrate that there is still life in the defense. Why is Mikalevski so pessimistic about it. In the last year, two different G.M have given us two different books, so can it be chesspublishing should address some of the theoretical disputes of the opening outlined in the literature?

Personally, I would like to explore some ideas in the gallagher variation with 8...exd4 and a6, as 8...a6 is the modern variation is dead from 9. dxe5, but I know from experience that any ideas that I present for debate and discussion will be used in Mikalevski's analysis without credit and by effect in Golubev's book without a citation.


Maybe its a case of the wrong man for the Job.

Do you think he ever visits the forum since his introductory post?.... I doubt it.... were he to write a book however it might be different, as like the rest I am sure he would be here regularly plugging it.

Tops Smiley  


  

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Teyko
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #5 - 10/11/06 at 21:46:16
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I think that the K.I.D is still a legitimate defense and its use by various Grand masters demonstrate that there is still life in the defense. Why is Mikalevski so pessimistic about it. In the last year, two different G.M have given us two different books, so can it be chesspublishing should address some of the theoretical disputes of the opening outlined in the literature?

Personally, I would like to explore some ideas in the gallagher variation with 8...exd4 and a6, as 8...a6 is the modern variation is dead from 9. dxe5, but I know from experience that any ideas that I present for debate and discussion will be used in Mikalevski's analysis without credit and by effect in Golubev's book without a citation.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Are K.I.D players really getting key ideas
Reply #4 - 10/11/06 at 21:11:46
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parisestmagique wrote on 10/11/06 at 15:24:52:
A lot of KID players are afraid of the variation : 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.b4 and you ?


Presumably you refer to Kramnik's Re1, but nowadays there are more critical lines to study.

I suspect that Kramnik's line is still popular for White moreso for its safeness, rather than any real theoretical threat it poses to the KID.

Nowadays most KID players are well prepared to meet.

Personally I use two approaches one for when a draw is sufficient, and the other (9...Ne8) intending the traditional pawn storm when I want to win. 

Toppy Smiley

  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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