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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6! (Read 13063 times)
OstapBender
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #15 - 03/15/07 at 16:32:45
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JonHecht wrote on 03/15/07 at 16:17:21:
Well, if you are really interested, you can  give my your fax #, and I can just send you a copy of the article that way.

Thanks Jon, but not necessary as I am a USCF member and already have access to it.

I posted the link (and the note that you needed to be logged on) as a convenient access point which could be used by other USCF members.

BTW, after

1.e4 c5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4 Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8.Be6+



Mackenzie writes:
    "8...Ke8, of course, would invite a repetition of position. However, White is under no obligation to accept a draw, and has good attacking chances if he wants to play for a win."

but provides no supporting analysis.  I'm not convinced; seems to me that White needs to take the draw (as has been discussed earlier in this thread).

I just noticed condor's post condor's post where he also expressed the opininon that White can continue to play for a win after 8...Ke8.  Hmm...  Maybe it's not as simple as I thought...  Undecided
  

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JonHecht
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #14 - 03/15/07 at 16:17:21
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Well, if you are really interested, you can  give my your fax #, and I can just send you a copy of the article that way.
  
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OstapBender
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #13 - 03/15/07 at 15:34:27
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JonHecht wrote on 03/14/07 at 07:05:09:
If anyone is interested this month's Chess Life just had a long article on this line by the one who played it, Dana.

Thanks.  I just took a look at the article at the Chess Life online site (uschess.org).

For USCF members, here's a link to the Mackenzie article online:
Sac Your Queen on Move Six! (A New Anti-Computer Variation) by Dana Mackenzie

(You need to be logged onto uschess.org for this link to work.)
  

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JonHecht
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #12 - 03/14/07 at 07:05:09
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If anyone is interested this month's Chess Life just had a long article on this line by the one who played it, Dana.
  
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condor
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #11 - 01/26/07 at 13:54:15
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I think white can still generate a sufficient attack after 8 Be6+ Ke8 9 Bxg4. The black king has less space to run. At least on c6 it had some breathing space. Black is virtually forced, on pain of kingside sufforcation to play e6 when after the e4 and e6 pawns are mopped up and white castles, black's king will look distinctly open.

Meanwhile, consider that sacrificing your queen for 2 pieces usually gives extreme long term compensation. Whether the King is on e8 or c6 should make little difference.

However, I have played this opening against many people (including a WGM who I got a opening advantage against before messing up) and no-one has ever played Bg4. I showed many people the queen sac after the game and they said they didn't even consider playing Bg4 as it looked way too risky. They all played e6.

You don't need to worry about it unless you are playing correspondence or a GM with an axe to grind (who would be angry enough and confident enough to face the queen sac then try and kop out with a draw?). Would you play Bg4 against an opening you have never seen before, which appears in no opening books and has 0 games in chessgames.com? No, you're going to avoid your opponemt's preparation and play the safe e6.

Now, after 6 Nc3 white can definetely regain the pawn with probably a slight positional advantage. Or, After 6...Be7 say (there are lots of alternatives: a6, h6, Bd6, b6, Nc6 which all require differnet plans of action), the more adventurous might try 7 d3 cxd3 8 Be3 dxc2 9 Qxc2 b6 10 0-0 when all white's pieces are nicely place for an all-out attack on black's king.

At the very least, the opening is sounder and a lot more fun to play than the traditional closed GPA.
  
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MNb
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #10 - 01/05/07 at 20:28:25
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Have you visited Johansson's website? The games of Bryntse and others have shown, that White has a strong and long lasting pressure.
The correct statement is not: the variation is a draw. The correct statement is: Black can force a draw. So I think it a bit unattractive for White.
  

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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #9 - 01/05/07 at 12:52:30
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Why is this a draw? I thought that Black can play ...Kc7 after Be6+
  
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #8 - 11/02/06 at 02:33:59
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There is an outstanding 50-minute video lecture at ChessLecture.com by Mackenzie discussing his victory.  I have more info at my blog:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2006/10/nuclear-option-in-sicil...

If you see the video, you will probably be as convinced as I am that White has a real initiative in the position.  The Bryntse games are also encouraging.
  
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MNb
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #7 - 10/14/06 at 21:15:48
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Don't bother. My rule as a teacher is: a question as yours proves that my explanation was insufficient. Thanks to TalJechin.
  

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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #6 - 10/14/06 at 15:05:02
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So after 8...Ke8 White has nothing better that to repeat the position with 9.Bf7+.  This is Black's forced draw.  Thanks Eternal gratitude.  Smiley

Also: Sorry MNb, I should have at least spent a few minutes trying to figure out what you meant by Black's forced draw before posting my reply.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #5 - 10/14/06 at 10:27:43
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Quote:
And again, if anyone can demonstrate (as opposed to making a glib, unsupported pronouncement) why 6...Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 leads to a forced draw I'd be thrilled to see it and eternally grateful for the enlightenment.  Roll Eyes


After 6...Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 8.Be6+ Ke8 do you see anything better than 9.Bf7+ Kd7 10.Be6+ Ke8 11.Bf7+ with a draw? - 9.Bxg4 doesn't look like an alternative to me as the K is much safer on e8...
  
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OstapBender
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #4 - 10/14/06 at 03:08:17
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MNb wrote on 10/13/06 at 01:15:54:
There are two objections: Black can force a draw with 6...Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7

Are you sure?  I don't see how this is a forced draw.

MNb wrote on 10/13/06 at 01:15:54:
and Black has the more solid 5...e6, when White must ask himself how useful ....f5 is in the Budapest.

This point I get.

I'm not trying to somehow "revive" the Grand Prix Attack, BTW.  I just ran across what looked like and interesting game and, not realizing the line had been discussed before in a mysteriously vanished thread (I did a search for Qxg4 before posting it), I thought it would be worth sharing.

And again, if anyone can demonstrate (as opposed to making a glib, unsupported pronouncement) why 6...Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 leads to a forced draw I'd be thrilled to see it and eternally grateful for the enlightenment.  Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #3 - 10/13/06 at 12:44:54
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[quote author=MNb link=1160671893/0#1 date=1160702154]Black has the more solid 5...e6, when White must ask himself how useful ....f5 is in the Budapest. [/quote]

Yes. Also, 4. ...Bf5 is presumably met by 5. g4, but 5. ...Bd7 and 5. ...Bg6 (6. f5 e6) must still be seriously considered. And 4. ...Qd4 is logical as well (no more Bc4 and no f3 breaks). The Queen sac is audacious and amusing, but this is certainly no cause for a revival of the GPA!
  
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #2 - 10/13/06 at 01:31:00
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Thanks.

Found the page on Thomas Johansson's website.  This link should get there directly: http://hem.passagen.se/tjmisha/bryntse.html
  

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MNb
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Re: Grand Prix Attack with Queen Sac on Move 6!
Reply #1 - 10/13/06 at 01:15:54
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See Thomas Johansson's website:

http://hem.passagen.se/tjmisha/
click Chess!
click Opening Tips
click Bryntse's Gambit

It also has been debated on this site and I have looked for the thread, but it looks like it has been lost in the big crash a year ago. There are two objections: Black can force a draw with 6...Nxg4 7.Bxf7+ Kd7 and Black has the more solid 5...e6, when White must ask himself how useful ....f5 is in the Budapest.
The same idea is possible against the Caro-Kann: 1.e4 c6 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 dxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.Bc4 Bg4 6.Qxg4.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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