dsanchez wrote on 10/16/06 at 03:09:57:


I'll answer that one for Tony.

SUBSCRIBE

Toppy

Dragonslayer wrote on 10/14/06 at 14:47:48:


thanks
although I could do with another three years to work on it

Dragonslayer wrote on 10/14/06 at 14:47:48:


Ok Slayer, I empathise with your emotional attachment to the Kings Gambit, clearly you enjoy it and there is nothing wrong with that. 

A couple of points though:

1) The 1.e4 e5 site does not just discuss the Ruy Lopez as you seem to imply, and I am sure if you have a compelling case in favor of some KG line for White I am fairly sure Renet would look at it. In fact Nigel Davies main recommendation for Black in his book was all but refuted by Renet in one of his updates, but since you don't think that this section has anything new to offer a KG and Vienna expert like yourself I am sure you already know the remedy. Maybe refuted is a litte strong but after further analysis it made reconsider my initial enthusiasm for Davies line.     

2) You assume that he picked up the a6 move from one of your post, but it is just as likely that he found this move independently at the board. I mean the move itself is very logical, natural and not that hard for a strong player to find.

3) "The best answer to 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 is 4...Nc6 not 4...Bg7. The details can be found in this Forum"
Just goes to show how valuable a resource the forum really is, however in this case it does not matter if its best, what really matters is that every strong 1...e5 player knows that the most promising way to meet the kings gambit involves g5 follwed by Bg7 and holding off on the greedy g4 gxf3 unless forced. When Renet first visited the forum, well posted something might be more accurate, he echoed the same sentiments as I did above and its nice to see him putting it into practice.

4) Publish your games if you want accreditation for novelties, don't keep them secret and then whine about it. I have lost count of the amount of 'novelties' published in informator and other sources that I have played or had played against me years before back in high school at Lunch time in the cafeteria. 

5) Granted that I have not posted analysis on the Kings Gambit for Black that I can remember, but that's mainly because most threads on this opening already point to White srtuggling. In fact its the Bishop's Gambit that seems to be hogging attention these days on the forum and that isnt much better either.

The Kings Gambit does have one major plus going for it, and that is books devoted to it sell well, particularly on the lower levels. So should Renet decide after reading these posts to explore the opening more critically in future updates, I certainly wouldn't object to that.   

Toppy

   

The only game I can find with 7.Bb5, except for Zeller-Renet, is the following where ...a6 comes a few forced moves later.

Notkin,M (2471) - Kazhgaleyev,M (2596) [C37]
ACP Blitz Prelim2 playchess.com INT (7), 13.04.2004

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.d4 Bg7 5.Nc3 d6 6.g3 Nc6 7.Bb5 g4 8.Nh4 f3 9.Be3 a6 10.Ba4 b5 11.Bb3 Nf6 12.Qd3 Bd7 13.0-0-0 Qe7 14.Bg5 h6 15.Nd5 Qd8 16.Be3 Ne7 17.Nxf6+ Bxf6 18.e5 Bg7 19.exd6 cxd6 20.Bf4 d5 21.Qe3 Be6 22.c3 Qd7 23.Bc2 0-0-0 24.Qd3 Kb7 25.Rhe1 Rc8 26.Kb1 Nc6 27.Nf5 Bf8 28.Ne3 h5 29.Bb3 Na5 30.Be5 Rh6 31.Bc2 Nc4 32.Nxc4 bxc4 33.Qe3 Bf5 34.Kc1 Bxc2 35.Kxc2 Qf5+ 36.Kc1 Re6 37.Qd2 f6 38.Bf4 Rce8 39.Rxe6 Rxe6 40.Re1 Rxe1+ 41.Qxe1 Qe4 42.Qxe4 dxe4 43.Kd2 Kc6 44.Ke3 Kd5 45.Kf2 f5 46.Ke3 Be7 47.Kf2 h4 48.Ke3 h3 49.Kf2 a5 50.Ke3 a4 51.a3 Bd6 52.Bg5 Bxg3 53.hxg3 h2 54.Kf4 h1Q 55.Kxf5 f2 56.Kxg4 f1Q 57.Bf4 Qff3+ 58.Kg5 Qhh5+ 0-1

Point taken Tony.

Of course Olivier had read my post in the Forum and seen that 7...a6 was an improvement (his words: I played the improvement") on existing theory! Only he forgot to mention it...
As not all TNs are improvements the two terms are not coinciding. However saying that some move is an improvement rather suggest that the move is:
1) a TN or
2) the first time a published analytical improvement has been played.

Since Olivier did not give any details I just assumed 1), but if 2) was meant, I stand corrected.
This does not change the fact that this sort of thing happens over and over.
I have played a lot of games with the Nc3 lines against the Becker, Fischer and classical defences and won most of them. The games mostly remain unpublished and since I prefer math and physics to chess as a career, and so will never become GM, they will stay unpublished.

Top, please refrain from directing your comments directly at me. I don't want to discuss openings with you. Don't take this personally, I just prefer to discuss openings with people who give and take, and not with someone who takes games, variations and analysis and only returns hyperbole.
A statement is only a "lie" if it can be attributed a definite truth value. Your opinions on the KG are well-known and do not constitute statements - that's why they are called opinions.

Here are some reasons I do not subscribe:

1) I don't play the Ruy Lopez with either colour.
2) I think I know more about the KG and the Vienna than I will ever get from this section.

P.S:
Thanks for the game Jonathan! Seeing your name attached to a book on the King's gambit by a reputable publishing company is certainly a trend breaker. Even though Johansson's first book was a critical and popular success he still had to self-publish his next one. Can't wait till your book comes out.

P.S.2
The best answer to 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 is 4...Nc6 not 4...Bg7. The details can be found in this Forum....

Most information from sites gone to website heaven, can be found through http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

Thomas Stock's Gambit page: http://web.archive.org/web/20020603234324/thomasstock.com/gambit/

Dragonslayer wrote on 10/13/06 at 16:40:30:


The reasons still aren't obvious to me?

Would you rather that GM Renet lie, and decieve readers into thinking that the Kings Gambit is good for White?  

I think you are missing out as Renet's section along with a few others are among the very best on offer, although granted there are some other sections that are mostly fluff with superficial light notes that mean nothing month in and month out. Fedorowicz used to be the chief offender here, now others seem to be jumping on the bandwagon with this lazy approach.

Toppy