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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Beating the Ruy Lopez (Read 5982 times)
MarinFan
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #12 - 02/13/07 at 11:38:39
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Hello,

Thank you those where games I was thinking of, but was at work and couldn't remember in detail. Tim Harding looks at the Tonu Oim game, in 64 games book. Think he suggests something for balck after d6 in the Hector game, but haven't looked at in detail yet.

Bye John S
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #11 - 02/12/07 at 22:38:54
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MarinFan,

You're thinking of Tonu Oim, who used this variation to help him become the 14th CC World Champion.  Here's his famous win:


[Event "Wch14 Final"]
[Date "1994.??.??"]
[White "Sanakoev, Grigory K. (RUS)"]
[Black "Oim, Tonu O. (EST)"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C64"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Bc5 4. c3 Bb6 5. d4 exd4 6. cxd4 Nce7 7. d5 a6 8.
Ba4 Nf6 9. Nc3 O-O 10. e5 Ng4 11. O-O d6 12. Bf4 Ng6 13. Bg5 f6 14. exf6 gxf6
15. Bc1 Kh8 16. Bc2 Rg8 17. Ne4 Qf8 18. a4 Ne7 19. b4 Qf7 20. Bb2 Ne5 21. Nxe5
fxe5 22. Kh1 Nxd5 23. f4 Qg7 24. Ng5 Nxf4 25. h4 Rf8 26. Bxh7 Bf5 27. Bxf5 Rxf5
28. Qg4 Rxg5 29. Qxg5 Qxg5 30. hxg5 Kg7 31. Kh2 Nd5 32. Ra3 Be3 33. Bc1 Bd4 34.
Rb3 b5 35. axb5 axb5 36. Kh3 Ra1 37. Rbf3 e4 38. Rf5 Be5 39. Kh4 Kg6 40. Rf8
Ra2 41. Rg8+ Kh7 42. Rb8 Rxg2 43. Rxb5 c6 44. Rb7+ Kg6 45. b5 e3 46. Rf3 e2 47.
Bd2 Rg1 48. bxc6 Rd1 49. Ba5 Nc3 50. Bxc3 Bxc3 51. Re7 e1=Q+ 52. Rxe1 Bxe1+ 53.
Kg4 Rd4+ 54. Rf4 Rxf4+ 55. Kxf4 Ba5 56. Ke4 Bc7 0-1


BTW, as far as I know, the latest in this line was Nijboer-Hector, Wijk aan Zee 2003, where White's play looked convincing.

[Event "Corus-B"]
[Site "Wijk aan Zee"]
[Date "2003.01.14"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Nijboer, Friso"]
[Black "Hector, Jonny"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C64"]
[WhiteElo "2553"]
[BlackElo "2570"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Bc5 4. c3 Bb6 5. d4 exd4 6. cxd4 Nce7 7. d5 Nf6 8.
Nc3 a6 9. Ba4 O-O 10. d6 cxd6 11. Bg5 Ng4 12. O-O f6 13. Bf4 Ne5 14. Rc1 Bc7
15. Nd5 N7c6 16. Nxc7 Qxc7 17. Nd4 g6 18. Bh6 Re8 19. Bb3+ Nf7 20. Nf5 Re6 21.
Bf4 gxf5 22. exf5 Kf8 23. fxe6 dxe6 24. Qh5 Nfe5 25. Rfd1 d5 26. Bxe5 fxe5 27.
Rc3 Ke7 28. Bxd5 1-0

Best,
LeeRoth
  
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MarinFan
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #10 - 02/12/07 at 14:49:05
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Hello,

One line I am looking at the moment, is an interesting one in the classical, which was played in a high level correspondence game, forget the names of the players at the moment.

It goes 1.e4 e5 2.nf3 nc6 3. Bb5 Bc5 4. c3 Bb6 5. d4 pxp 6. pxp Nc-e7 preparing c6-d5. Then one critical line is 7.d5 Nf6 8d6 aiming to distrupt black's development.
                The conditions of OTB play are so different not sure if going to be brave enough to try it myself. It turns out it is a favourite, or was of GM Hector. If this turns out to be too mad for me, I  think the Open Ruy is as good a chance as any for a winning try for black.

Bye John S
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #9 - 01/02/07 at 23:23:16
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Shirov claims that Kotronias' 18.Nxd4 was a mistake and gives 18.Bd5! and white has problems.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #8 - 12/21/06 at 20:02:52
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In CBM 115, Shirov annotates his recent game with Kazimadinov in this line.  Kaz played 16..Be6, which Shirov considers an improvement over 16..Qb6.  The game ended in a draw and Shirov wasn't able to get much.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #7 - 11/28/06 at 15:09:51
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Ametanoitos,

Can you show where?  Marin annotated the game for CBM and he seemed  to think Black was fine throughout.

Also, I suppose Black doesn't need to play 17..Na5, which was a novelty at the time.  Does Shirov discuss the alternatives?

Thanks,
Lee Roth
  
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #6 - 11/28/06 at 09:54:44
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LeeRoth wrote on 11/26/06 at 16:05:43:
One dynamic line, recommended by Shereshevsky in the Soviet Chess Conveyer, is:  
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. c3
O-O 9. h3 Na5 10. Bc2 c5 11. d4 Qc7 12. Nbd2 cxd4 13. cxd4 Rd8!?  

I haven't looked at this line recently, but played it up to a couple of years ago.  OTB it can be a lot of fun.  In correspondence chess, YMMV.  Anyway, here are some sample lines which I've tried to cut/paste.  Please excuse any errors.

A.  14. Nf1 exd4  

White alternatives:

A.1. 15. Ng3 Nc6 16. Bf4 [16. Bb3 Qb6  17. Bf4 Na5 was Kotronias- Shirov, Fide World Cup 2005, 0-1] Qb6 17. Bb3 Be6 (17... Bd7) 18. Rc1 transposes to A.2



Shirov in his DVD about the Spanish claims that black is busted after 13..Rd8 following his game with Kotronias. He believes that his position was almost lost at sometime.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #5 - 11/26/06 at 16:05:43
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One dynamic line, recommended by Shereshevsky in the Soviet Chess Conveyer, is:  
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. c3
O-O 9. h3 Na5 10. Bc2 c5 11. d4 Qc7 12. Nbd2 cxd4 13. cxd4 Rd8!?  

I haven't looked at this line recently, but played it up to a couple of years ago.  OTB it can be a lot of fun.  In correspondence chess, YMMV.  Anyway, here are some sample lines which I've tried to cut/paste.  Please excuse any errors.

A.  14. Nf1 exd4  

White alternatives:

A.1. 15. Ng3 Nc6 16. Bf4 [16. Bb3 Qb6  17. Bf4 Na5 was Kotronias- Shirov, Fide World Cup 2005, 0-1] Qb6 17. Bb3 Be6 (17... Bd7) 18. Rc1 transposes to A.2

A.2  15. Bf4 Nc6 16. Bb3 [16. Ng3 Be6 17. Bb3 Qb6 was tested in Svidler-Kasimdzhanov, Yerevan 2001] After 16. Bb3 Qb6 (16..Be6 is also playable. See Klovans-Shereshevsky 1973, 0-1.) 17. Rc1 Bd7 18. Ng3 Rac8 19. Re2 and now Emms's suggestion of h6, with the idea that 20. Rd2 can be met by 20...g5.  

A.3.  After 15. Nd4, Black gets to implement his main idea: 15... d5 16. e5 Ne4 17. f3 Bc5 18. fxe4 (18. b4!? is unclear)  18... dxe4 19. Be3 Nc4 (19... Bb7 Hellers) 20. Bxe4 Nxe3 21. Nxe3 Rxd4 22. Qf3 Rb8 23. Kh1 Bb7 (23... Be6 24. Nf5 Bxf5 25. Bxf5 g6 was Zeitlln-Shereshevsky 1969, 0-1) 24. Nd5 Bxd5 25. Bxd5 Rd8 26. Bb3 Rd3 27. Qf5 g6 28. Qe4 R3d4 29. Qf3 1/2-1/2 Hellers-Z Polgar, 1988.


B. 14. b3 is considered White's best.  14... Nc6 15. Bb2 exd4 16. Nxd4 Nxd4 17. Bxd4 Be6
18... Qa5 when there are three alternatives:

B.1. 19. Bb1 d5 20.e5 Ne4 seems OK, but Black has to avoid the 21.Nf1 Rdc8 22.Qd3 g6  23.f3 Bb4? of A. Ivanov-Pedzich, 2000.

B.2 19. Nf3 d5 20. exd5 Rxd5 21. Rxe6 fxe6 22. Qe2 Qa3
23. Bb2 Qd6 24. Bxf6 Bxf6 25. Be4 Rd8 26. Bxd5 exd5 ('=' Wedberg) and later 1/2-1/2 Grischuk,A-Iuldachev, Yerevan 2001.

B.3. 19. Nf1 d5 20. e5 Ne4 21. f3 Rac8 22. Qd3 [22. fxe4 Ba3 23. exd5 (23. b4 Qc7)
23... Rxd5 24. Bxh7+ (24. Ne3 Bxc1 25. Nxd5 Bxd5 26. Qxc1 Rxc2 27. Qxc2
Qxe1+) 24... Kxh7 25. Rxc8 Bxc8 26. Qc2+ g6 27. Bf2 (According to Wedberg in CBM, white is a P up, but the position is not clear since Black has the pair of Bs.  Later 1-0 in Svidler-Shabalov, Bermuda 2003.] 22... g6 23. Bb1 Bb4 (23... Ba3) 24. Red1 Nc3 25. a3 Bf5 26. axb4 Bxd3 27. bxa5 Ne2+ 28. Kf2 Rxc1 29. Bxd3 Rxd1 30. Kxe2 +/= Wedberg.  Later 1/2-1/2 Lutz-Iuldachev,
Yerevan 2001


Enjoy,
Lee Roth
  
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #4 - 11/07/06 at 10:35:06
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You will have to play strong attention on the oppening stage of the game.
Any mistake can be dangerous.
Its a combination game in general.
The Steinitz defense is the most dificult I have played so far.
I would like to know if someone has some article discussing this opening? Cool Cool
  

FelixTheCat
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #3 - 10/30/06 at 16:42:29
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"Immediately aggressive response"-  Against the Lopez There are only 3 - Marshall, The Open & Archangelski.

The trouble with the Marshall is that white can opt to use the Anti-Marshall. That takes quite a bit of fun away. hence I too am reviewing my Lopez defenses as an alternative to my sicilian. So methinks the best bet would be the latter 2 above as far as rapid development , open space & aggression is concerned, and white has no 'antidote' to them so to speak.

There is however this line whose name escapes me where black immediately goes after the Lopez bishop (pesky thing aint it?)
3...a6 4.Ba4 b5 5.Bb3 Na5.

The Schliemann is very sharp too, just that I consider it too loosening for my liking.

Ive also expeimented with the Breyer once or twice (similar to the Zaitsev in someways yes?), supposedly a very flexible black defense, but didnt enjoy it. Wld prefer greater activity and space.

But I'm sure that you are aware that if you wish to build up a defense to the Lopez, studying the exchange (ho hum!) in addition to the choice of your defense is mandatory.
  

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong." - Murray Walker
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #2 - 10/30/06 at 07:50:56
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Maybe try the Tsjigorin, imo quite a logical system to play, but with enough scope for your own ideas.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Beating the Ruy Lopez
Reply #1 - 10/30/06 at 07:45:17
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The open spanish is worth a look. The choice really depends on the strength of your oponents.
For instance against very strong oponents I am perfectly willing to enter the Marshall gambit. I can trust them not to enter any forced drawing line. But against lower rated oponents I have played either the Breyer or some sideline of the Zaitsev/Smyslov complex, hoping to outplay them on a strategic level.

However for some new correspondence tournaments I am preparing the Open Spanish, which is combative enough as well!.
  
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Beating the Ruy Lopez
10/27/06 at 22:07:41
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I'm starting a new correspondence tournament and am looking to return to 1 ... e5 as Black after considerable time away.  Increasingly, drawing with Black is tantamount to finishing midway down the table in correspondence games, so I am looking for a more immediately aggressive response to 1.e4 than my Caro.  Can anyone recommend a variation of the Ruy Lopez?  I've been toying with the Zaitsev (the rest of my repertoire is fairly Karpov-esque), but also the Archangel complex (Archangel, New Archangel, Moller).  I would welcome input on how best to tackle the Ruy Lopez, aiming for a win with Black (yes: I know about the forced draw in the Zaitsev), but maintaining a relatively solid game should winning chances go south...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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