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Normal Topic English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5 (Read 4185 times)
MNb
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Re: English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
Reply #9 - 11/20/06 at 22:14:44
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For the time being I conclude then, that 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.b3 and 4.g3 avoids the Neo-Catalan Accepted without further objection. Interested readers should keep in mind to leave the bishop on c1 for a while.
  

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IMJohnCox
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Re: English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
Reply #8 - 11/20/06 at 11:52:15
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No significant enlightenment, I’m afraid. Watson just says that 4 g3 ‘might be more accurate’ than 4 Bb2 because it leaves White better placed against ….d4 ideas, but no specific lines.
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
Reply #7 - 11/16/06 at 11:26:11
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Well, 3 g3 dxc4 is a different system, of course. If White wants this Neo-Catalan stuff then he has to go 3 b3 to take back with the pawn.

Actually Petrosian-Korchnoi was a bit different, the point there being that Black could go d4 at a time when he could still play ...f6 to support his centre. Although even then there used to be a system against the Saemisch involving ...b6 and ...c5, didn't there? Maybe not ...Bb7; in fact I think that what did for the system in the end was some e5/Be4 breakthrough.

Obviously if Black's going to play ...d4 and go into a reversed Modern Benoni White would like the bishop on c1, but maybe there isn't any concrete difference. Say it goes 3 b3 Nf6 4 g3 c5 5 Bg2 Nc6 6 00 Be7. White's target position would arise after 7 Bb2 00 8 e3, as in various games Miles-Geller and others. Should he go 7 e3 first then 7...00 8 Bb2, I wonder? Say he goes 7 Bb2 d4 8 e3; can Black get away with 8...e5?

I'm not sure. You might be right and it makes no real difference, but I'm pretty sure Watson says in the book I mentioned above that it's more accurate to dealy Bb2. I might have misremembered or it might just be a matter of cutting down Black's options, because I don't recall e3 coming before Bb2. I'll have a look tonight and see if I can offer any vicarious enlightenment.

  
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MNb
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Re: English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
Reply #6 - 11/15/06 at 20:55:01
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Obviously not well known enough. According to my database I was not the only one who fell for this. I suppose White can take advantage of leaving the bishop on c1 for a while? I would be grateful for some explanation.
Does this mean, that 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.b3 and 4.g3 is more precise than 3.g3, which allows 3...dxc4 ?
  

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IMJohnCox
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Re: English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
Reply #5 - 11/15/06 at 11:37:22
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MNb, in your sequence is 4 Bb2 not a well-known mistake along the lines of Petrosian-Korchnoi, candidates 1971 (although a slightly different position), and White ought to get to it with g3?

I don't see 3....d4's anything to worry about. Black's going to have to play ....e6-e5, so White just gets a Benoni/Yugoslav with his extra tempo plus the tempo b3, which may come in handy or it may not.
  
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Re: English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
Reply #4 - 11/15/06 at 07:24:30
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Isn't 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.b3 d4 also a bit annoying?
  

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ErictheRed
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Re: English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
Reply #3 - 11/15/06 at 02:45:00
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You could try heading for a Catalan after 2.Nf3 and 3.g3.  Don't forget that Black may also play 2...f5 with a Dutch.
  
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MNb
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Re: English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
Reply #2 - 11/15/06 at 02:04:43
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Did John Watson teach chess to William from Normandy?  Grin This sheds a whole new light on the medieval history of England.

As far as I know, 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 d5 does avoid the QGA and the Slav Accepted. After 3.d4 c6 does not have to enter the Meran either.
With the Réti setup 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.b3 White has a practical problem after c5 4.Bb2 Nc6 5.g3 d4.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
Reply #1 - 11/14/06 at 23:59:02
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I agree with you. Most Black players hate this stuff. Botvinnik and Miles did well with it, among others. John Watson's English IV, back in 1066 or so, had a very good chapter on it, but I don't know of anything more recent. Botvinnik-Larsen, Monaco 1967, was a White model.
  
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English 1. c4 e6 2. .... d5
11/14/06 at 23:24:17
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I'm a fairly new English player.  I am curious what more seasoned English players tend to play against 1. c4 e6 2. (any) d5?  I know many experts recommend transposing to QGD lines, which avoids many annoying defenses like the KID, Grunfeld, Benko, Benoni, etc.  However, it also opens up the Slav and QGA, and even several variations of the QGD which I'd simply prefer not to get involved with.

What is the most dynamic way for white to play and keep the game as close to the English as possible.  The best I've come up with is 1. c4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. b3 leaning towards a Reti type configuration.  I would love some feedback on what other English players prefer to the common QGD setup without playing 2. d4.  Thanks.
  
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