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Normal Topic QGA - Godes defence (Read 3004 times)
TalJechin
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Re: QGA - Godes defence
Reply #4 - 11/30/06 at 09:12:30
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IMJohnCox wrote on 11/29/06 at 12:45:56:
Legend has it that Euwe announced before the game that he would accept a draw at any moment.


Hmm, that may explain it. As I could imagine that a draw offer from black in that position would otherwise be seen as an insult. Though I doubt it is acceptable behaviour sportsmanwise, since such a statement can be interpreted as a draw offer on every move albeit silent but still influencing the opponent...

- Anyway, if Euwe had dared to win by 2, he might have had a better reputation these days than 'the guy who barely could beat a drunkard and then got squashed like a bug in the return match'..


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I believe Cafferty and Hooper maintain that White is better after 3...Nd7 with just 4 e4 Nb6 5 Bxc4 Nxc4 6 Qa4+, but I may be wrong, and even if I'm right, of course, they may be wrong.


Well, you're both right probably, though I haven't seen H&C, this line has extremely good stats for white!  Shocked

But the following Godes' set-up seems OKish for black

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nd7 3.c4 dxc4 4.e4 Nb6 5.Bxc4 Nxc4 6.Qa4+ c6 7.Qxc4 Nf6 8.Nc3 Be6 9.Qd3 g6 10.0-0 Bg7 11.h3 0-0 12.Be3 Ne8 13.Ng5 Qd7 14.Nxe6 Qxe6 Sapundiev,G-Godes,D/corr Markov mem 1987 (0-1 50)


Inn2
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3... Nd7 4. e4 Nb6 5. Ne5 Nf6 6. Nc3 e6 7. Nxc4 Bb4 8. f3 with a small plus for White, especially since 8... c5 can be met by 9. a3.


But here black seems to score quite well with 5/6 ...g6 turning 'the Slav' into a Grünfeld...  Smiley
  
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Re: QGA - Godes defence
Reply #3 - 11/29/06 at 15:07:14
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TalJechin wrote on 11/29/06 at 12:17:03:
Btw, what made me interested in the first place was probably that I recognised the Nd7-b6 idea from the KG (i.e. Ne7-g6) and since a4 a5 doesn't weaken the k-side as h4 h5 in the KG my first impression was that it might be a better idea vs the QG, especially since QGeers aren't used to being denied Bxc4...


Hello, i'm very sure there's another half of QGeers in the world who will be happy to sacrifice the pawn on c4 in similar positions for an attack Smiley
But in this case, i think White can develop in main-line Slav style and hope to win back the c4 pawn: 3... Nd7 4. e4 Nb6 5. Ne5 Nf6 6. Nc3 e6 7. Nxc4 Bb4 8. f3 with a small plus for White, especially since 8... c5 can be met by 9. a3.
  
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Willempie
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Re: QGA - Godes defence
Reply #2 - 11/29/06 at 13:42:35
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TalJechin wrote on 11/29/06 at 12:17:03:
Btw2, the idea even has some historical significance as Alekhine used in the last game of the WC 1935. And Euwe accepting a draw offer at move 40 in a clearly winning position 2 pawns up seems a blunder at least as big as Kramnik's recent Qe3?? imo - no wonder he lost the rematch when he ended with such a sign of weakness!

Hmm accepting a draw which wins the WC is a blunder? If you want to run the risk of pulling a Kramnik, AFTER you had the WC in your hands, feel free Wink

But the variation doesnt look as bad as I thought. Smiley
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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IMJohnCox
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Re: QGA - Godes defence
Reply #1 - 11/29/06 at 12:45:56
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Legend has it that Euwe announced before the game that he would accept a draw at any moment. One can see the merit of that – frees the mind to concentrate on the goal. I don’t see that it was a question of psychological weakness. One might see it more as a psychological stroke – like Tal’s famous, ‘When I want to win against Benko, I win. When I want to draw, I draw.’ (upon being chided by Koblencs for forcing perpetual instead of mate when a half point won him the 1959 Candidates, I believe). Tal says himself that from a psychological view it would have been easier thenceforth for Benko had Tal won this game.

I'm reminded of Euwe's sad comment on the return: 'It's strange; when I won in 1935 I am convinced I played worse than Alekhine. But when I lost in 1937 I was already stronger than him.'

I believe Cafferty and Hooper maintain that White is better after 3...Nd7 with just 4 e4 Nb6 5 Bxc4 Nxc4 6 Qa4+, but I may be wrong, and even if I'm right, of course, they may be wrong.
  
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TalJechin
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QGA - Godes defence
11/29/06 at 12:17:03
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I recently noticed an interesting off-beat line in the QGA 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nd7!? (which isn't mentioned by Ruslan btw, so maybe a quick look at it in the next update please?)

Glenn Flear gives some coverage of it in SOS 3.

So far the only game I've noticed that claims to achieve something big for white is Mikhalevski-Zilberman according to the white player of that game. Who gives '6.h3!' - with the idea of shutting out Bc8.

Funny enough, Zilberman played 5.h3 ('?!' Flear) against Godes in 1975...


Mikhalevski,V (2520) - Zilberman,Y (2465) [D21]
ch-ISR, Tel Aviv ISR (7), 2002

1.Nf3 d5 2.d4 Nd7 3.c4 dxc4 4.e4 Nb6 5.a4 a5 6.h3 g6 7.Nc3 Bg7 8.Bf4 c6 9.Qd2 Nf6 10.Be2 0-0 11.0-0 Ne8 12.Rfe1 f5 13.Bf1 Nc7 14.Bh6 looks like very good comp for the pawn at the very least.

But 6...g6 seems the real reason black got into trouble. 6...e6/Nf6/Bd7/e5/ and even 6...f5 are all roughly equal according to Fritz.



Btw, what made me interested in the first place was probably that I recognised the Nd7-b6 idea from the KG (i.e. Ne7-g6) and since a4 a5 doesn't weaken the k-side as h4 h5 in the KG my first impression was that it might be a better idea vs the QG, especially since QGeers aren't used to being denied Bxc4...

Btw2, the idea even has some historical significance as Alekhine used in the last game of the WC 1935. And Euwe accepting a draw offer at move 40 in a clearly winning position 2 pawns up seems a blunder at least as big as Kramnik's recent Qe3?? imo - no wonder he lost the rematch when he ended with such a sign of weakness!
  
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