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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) King's Indian Attack (Read 23361 times)
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #36 - 08/01/19 at 18:43:19
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Michael Ayton wrote on 08/01/19 at 12:37:42:
I'm keen to know what anyone might think White's best course after 1 Nf3 d5 2 g3 c5 3 Bg2 Nc6 4 0-0 (I'd normally go 4 d4) e5 5 d3 (I tend to prefer 5 c4) Be7. Does anything have any sting? I can't see any decent, let alone inspiring, line after 6 e4 d4, or 6 c4 Nf6. Sad Am I being too pessimistic?


Not sure whether you have access to McDonald's book on the KIA (published by Everyman 2014) but in chapter 4 he goes into some detail about the blocked centre with ....d4 after the e4 advance by white. Basically he feels that although black may have more space, like the KID white has a fairly clear plan to follow and generally has good chances.

He was more concerned about black maintaining the central tension by not advancing or exchanging the d pawn. His view was that this generally leads to white having to play exd5 sooner or later when whites plan and chances are a lot less clear. 

I'm not so keen on the c4 option for white simply because with the knight on c6 and not having played ....e6 black can play ....e5 in one move and I'm just not a fan of allowing black that extra tempo in the reversed Benoni.
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #35 - 08/01/19 at 12:37:42
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I'm keen to know what anyone might think White's best course after 1 Nf3 d5 2 g3 c5 3 Bg2 Nc6 4 0-0 (I'd normally go 4 d4) e5 5 d3 (I tend to prefer 5 c4) Be7. Does anything have any sting? I can't see any decent, let alone inspiring, line after 6 e4 d4, or 6 c4 Nf6. Sad Am I being too pessimistic?
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #34 - 09/04/18 at 17:52:35
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Call me a cynic, but I don't have much hope for a publisher that provides a scanned excerpt.  Shocked Huh Undecided
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #33 - 09/04/18 at 13:44:26
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New Book on the KIA
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7874.pdf

It's advocating 2. d3 against everything, including 1. .. e5.

Personally I'd think it a little suspect except in 1. e4 e6 2. d3 and 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d3

Playing it on move 2 against the Sicilian discloses your intentions, so for example Black might respond 2. .. Nc6 which he might not be prepared to do after 1. d4 c5 2. Nf3 .
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #32 - 06/30/18 at 12:31:41
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MaxJudd wrote on 06/30/18 at 02:50:11:
A person starting with KIA vs. French is likely not going to be all that familiar with the unbalancing g5 lines in the Be7 Tarrasch unless they play that line as Black. 


I'd say it depends. Given that you can directly transpose, it's possible that a KIA player will have already met the line. Also .. g5 punts by Black aren't that unusual as attempts to break up the usual KIA structures and attack.
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #31 - 06/30/18 at 02:50:11
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A person starting with KIA vs. French is likely not going to be all that familiar with the unbalancing g5 lines in the Be7 Tarrasch unless they play that line as Black.  This isn't to say that this Bc5 approach is objectively better but merely that it has some  practical advantages beyond the cheapo set up by the move against the autopilot 5 g3 (and this cheapo does sometimes payoff).
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #30 - 06/28/18 at 08:32:00
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Stigma wrote on 06/28/18 at 05:35:18:
[quote author=4A584D444C444852554453210 link=1166690424/28#28 date=1530156750]
Must be a good idea for Black to have one of these in his repertoire, since they all lead to different play from what White is usually after in the KIA.


After 1. e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. Ngf3 Bc5, then 5. d4 can be played. 5. .. Be7 is a Tarrasch French but 5. .. dxe4 and 5. .. Bb6 are also possible.
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #29 - 06/28/18 at 05:35:18
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kylemeister wrote on 06/28/18 at 03:32:30:
Another possibility after 4. Ngf3 (and not an "old book move" like e.g. 4...Nc6 and 4...b6) is 4...Bc5 (one point being that 5. g3 is blunderous). 
https://www.chesspublishing.com/content/2/jun17.htm#kia


Ah yes, I should have mentioned that one. All these three 4th moves are favorites of John Watson's and covered in Play the French, both the 3rd and 4th editions (I don't have the earlier ones).

Must be a good idea for Black to have one of these in his repertoire, since they all lead to different play from what White is usally after in the KIA.

Btw. Watson seems quite unimpressed by the 4.g3 move order, and I think I agree. 4.Ngf3 must be the better try surely.
  

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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #28 - 06/28/18 at 03:32:30
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Stigma wrote on 06/28/18 at 01:25:05:
McDonald could probably have given the more flexible move order 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.Ngf3 instead without losing any important options; waiting one more move with g3 to see if the bishop may be more useful elsewhere. Then 4...c5 and 4...Be7 can be confidently met with 5.g3. But 4...Nc6!? and 4...b6 are more sneaky, retaining options of ...e5 and/or ...Bc5. Both are very decent defences to the KIA.


Another possibility after 4. Ngf3 (and not an "old book move" like e.g. 4...Nc6 and 4...b6) is 4...Bc5 (one point being that 5. g3 is blunderous). 
https://www.chesspublishing.com/content/2/jun17.htm#kia
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #27 - 06/28/18 at 01:25:05
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RdC wrote on 06/27/18 at 18:57:40:
Playing a reverse Philidor is hardly the most aggressive of openings even with an extra tempo or two unless you spice it up by not castling, but playing Rg1 and g4 instead.

Cool plan. I have never looked at g4 in these positions. But it's a move that crops up in all kinds of openings these days. I guess this would actually be a White Lion!

VGA wrote on 06/28/18 at 00:42:30:
But I have to fianchetto since I already weakened a ton of squares by playing g3. Right?

McDonald could probably have given the more flexible move order 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.Ngf3 instead without losing any important options; waiting one more move with g3 to see if the bishop may be more useful elsewhere. Then 4...c5 and 4...Be7 can be confidently met with 5.g3. But 4...Nc6!? and 4...b6 are more sneaky, retaining options of ...e5 and/or ...Bc5. Both are very decent defences to the KIA.

VGA wrote on 06/28/18 at 00:42:30:
Anyway, McDonald also suggests the alternative Qe2 instead of Nd2.

I've been looking at the KIA vs the French myself, and would love to make 2.d3 d5 3.Qe2 work. But the tempo-losing ...e6-e5 is a problem here too: 3...Nc6!? 4.Nf3 dxe4 5.dxe4 e5. Now 6.c3 and 7.Qc2 to get the bishop outside the blocked e4 pawn is probably best but nothing special for White - it's just a game. 3...Nc6 4.Nf3 d4 with a weird reversed King's Indian is also possible.

Starting with 2.Qe2 is an option, hoping to avoid or gain different options against these defences with ...e6-e5 and no ...c5 from Black.
  

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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #26 - 06/28/18 at 00:42:30
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RdC wrote on 06/27/18 at 18:57:40:
VGA wrote on 06/27/18 at 15:48:51:
Now what? White has played g3 already, he has to fianchetto on g2 and have a bad blocked in bishop while Black has space, easy development and castles 1 move earlier, too.


You can in fact change plans and play Nf3 and the Bishop out to b5. I don't know whether Macdonald recommends this.

With an early dxe4 and .. e5, the other plan for White is not to fianchetto at all, but to play c3 and Be2. Playing a reverse Philidor is hardly the most aggressive of openings even with an extra tempo or two unless you spice it up by not castling, but playing Rg1 and g4 instead.

But I have to fianchetto since I already weakened a ton of squares by playing g3. Right?

Anyway, McDonald also suggests the alternative Qe2 instead of Nd2.

Meanwhile I have decided that trying to play the KIA as a system will not give me any advantage, I'm better off focusing on each defense to e4, building around the Ruy Lopez. It may take a while  Grin
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #25 - 06/27/18 at 19:47:43
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kylemeister wrote on 06/27/18 at 19:20:03:
[quote author=7E486F2C0 link=1166690424/23#23 date=1530125860]
But Black can meet 6. Ngf3 with ...Bc5.


An engine claims 7. Nxe5 as playable and a very small edge. No games in practice though.

The Vasiukov - Tal game is or perhaps was well known. It's in Ray Keene's Flank Openings as one of the few games to demonstrate that the KIA isn't a forced win.



  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #24 - 06/27/18 at 19:20:03
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RdC wrote on 06/27/18 at 18:57:40:
You can in fact change plans and play Nf3 and the Bishop out to b5. I don't know whether Macdonald recommends this.


But Black can meet 6. Ngf3 with ...Bc5.
Incidentally, a game with this system some people might recall is (the recently deceased) Vasiukov-Tal, annotated by Tal in his Life and Games book.
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #23 - 06/27/18 at 18:57:40
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VGA wrote on 06/27/18 at 15:48:51:
Now what? White has played g3 already, he has to fianchetto on g2 and have a bad blocked in bishop while Black has space, easy development and castles 1 move earlier, too.


You can in fact change plans and play Nf3 and the Bishop out to b5. I don't know whether Macdonald recommends this.

With an early dxe4 and .. e5, the other plan for White is not to fianchetto at all, but to play c3 and Be2. Playing a reverse Philidor is hardly the most aggressive of openings even with an extra tempo or two unless you spice it up by not castling, but playing Rg1 and g4 instead.
  
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Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #22 - 06/27/18 at 16:56:09
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VGA wrote on 06/27/18 at 15:48:51:
So he suggests 1. e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.g3

OK what if Black simply exchanges on e4?  4. ...dxe4 5. dxe4
Then Black plays 5. ...e5!


Well, that is in fact an old respected way of playing with Black.
  
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