Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) King's Indian Attack (Read 22820 times)
MW
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 122
Joined: 04/20/18
Gender: Male
Re: The Reti Opening Move by Move
Reply #66 - Today at 04:58:50
Post Tools
A question for IM Sam Collins....see your book on the Reti Opening has been further delayed ....So is it ever going to get published or is it dead in the water ?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RdC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 847
Joined: 05/17/08
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #65 - yesterday at 13:38:11
Post Tools
VGA wrote on 11/19/19 at 14:20:35:
Found the name of the book:

The King's Indian Attack... ...Properly Played

https://www.newinchess.com/the-king-s-indian-attack-properly-played


I see the author uses a number of old Fischer games as illustrations. Unless he has something new to say, these games and the ideas in them would be familiar from when they first appeared in 1960s and 1970s magazines and books.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
VGA
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 43
Joined: 08/13/17
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #64 - 11/19/19 at 14:20:35
Post Tools
RdC wrote on 09/04/18 at 13:44:26:
New Book on the KIA
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7874.pdf

It's advocating 2. d3 against everything, including 1. .. e5.

Personally I'd think it a little suspect except in 1. e4 e6 2. d3 and 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d3

Playing it on move 2 against the Sicilian discloses your intentions, so for example Black might respond 2. .. Nc6 which he might not be prepared to do after 1. d4 c5 2. Nf3 .


Found the name of the book:

The King's Indian Attack... ...Properly Played

https://www.newinchess.com/the-king-s-indian-attack-properly-played

Publication date :      September 1, 2018
Number of pages :      299
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1810
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #63 - 08/23/19 at 18:13:40
Post Tools
Just back from the second of my three summer 'aways' to see these great posts. Excellent stuff, Eric -- thanks for it! It seems to me now (admittedly on just a quick butcher's) that 7 ...Qc7 must be better than 7 ...f6, as you suggest. V. useful Saemisch analogy, too ...

All this has got me thinking how superficial most of the literature I've seen on the KIA is! I can think of at least two good reasons why no one might be massively keen on writing a good book on the subject, but you'd have thought someone would have managed to dig down a bit rather than recycling the same half-dozen lines of old 'analysis' and 'famous games'! ...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2455
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #62 - 08/18/19 at 17:12:11
Post Tools
I was going to edit my previous post, but I guess that it's been too long? 

If we look at the position after 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4.d3 e5 5.Nbd2 Be7 6.e4 d4 7.Nc4 f6, I don't think that White needs to play 8.a4.  8.Nh4 b5 might be met with 9.Qh5+ (though I haven't analyzed extensively).  But even simply retreating the knight to a3 or d2 leaves Black's pieces somewhat misplaced and queenside possibly over-extended. 

Even 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4.d3 e5 5.Nbd2 Be7 6.e4 d4 7.Nc4 f6 8.a4 Bg4 is probably fine for White.  In my book on the Samisch I point out that this kind of setup works poorly for Black, but here with colors reversed, White has an extra tempo and Black has used a tempo on the sub-optimal ...Be7.  So all in all I think that this must be OK for White, if not hugely inspiring.  Better than allowing the 4.0-0 e5 5.d3 Be7 lines from earlier.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2455
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #61 - 08/17/19 at 16:31:33
Post Tools
For the record, I'm much higher on 4.c4 than I am on 4.d3; if your only problem with 4.0-0 e5 5.c4 is a transposition to a reversed Maroczy bind, then I think that 4.c4 is a very good solution.  Obviously, after 4.c4 Black could play an early ...e6 somewhere and you're likely back in a Tarrasch defense of some sort. 

Regarding 4.d3, I claim no advantage for White.  However, my understanding is that it's specifically 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. O-O e5 5. d3 Be7 that is the problem, largely because of 6. e4 d4 7. a4 h5!.  So I do think that White benefits by postponing castling here.  If 4.d3 e5 5.Nbd2 Be7, White could continue flexibly with 6.c3. 

Probably best is 6.e4 d4 7.Nc4, when 7...f6 looks a little odd in combination with 5...Be7 to me.  For instance, now White might play 8.0-0 here, because of h5? 9.Nh4!.  8.0-0 b5 9.Na3 a6 (perhaps not best) 10.Nh4 looks OK for White to me, also.  Perhaps even better than castling on move 8 would be 8.Nh4, which avoids all of those pawn-push lines from Black.  I'm talking about 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4.d3 e5 5.Nbd2 Be7 6.e4 d4 7.Nc4 f6 8.Nh4!?.  I think that a KIA player should be pretty happy with White there. 

The problem is probably 7...f6?!.  I'm sure that 7...Qc7 must be better in an ultimate sense, but now I think that White has avoided the worst of the kingside pawn-pushing lines  because the queen is slightly misplaced there (no longer in contact with the kingside and h4).  White could try 8.a4, and if 8...Bg4 use a trick like 9.0-0 h5 10.Qe1 h4 11.Nxh4 Bxh4 12.gh Rxh4 13.f3!  Or if he doesn't want to castle yet, perhaps 9.c3. 

Again I don't claim any advantage for White, but I think that there are subtleties here that favor White compared to the 4.0-0 line I gave above.  A KIA player could do some independent research and come up with a solution that works for them. 





  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1810
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #60 - 08/17/19 at 11:17:18
Post Tools
Quote:
Hi Michael, did you take a look at my suggestions of 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 c5 3.Bg2 Nc6 and now either 4.d3 or 4.c4?

Apologies and thanks! I remember looking at this briefly before getting sidetracked by the succeeding flurry, and then going away for a few days and forgetting all about it!

4 c4 is of course possible just as is 4 d4 (even though after 4 c4 d4 Black achieves ...e5 in one move), but I was basically just speculating on trying out a KIA from time to time instead of my usual Reti. In what sense though does 4 d3 avoid the 5 ...Be7 line(s)? After 4 d3 e5 5 Nbd2 Be7, of course White could play 6 c4 here; but after 6 e4 instead, how can he usefully meet 6 ...d4 without transposing (7 0-0 g5 or h5) to 5 ...Be7 stuff anyway? Is, say, 7 Nc4 f6 8 a4 Bg4 substantially different? Of course I'm not suggesting Black's ...g5/...h5 ideas are necessarily advantageous for him, just that they could be an annoying danger!


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2455
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #59 - 08/12/19 at 14:32:35
Post Tools
Hi Michael, did you take a look at my suggestions of 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 c5 3.Bg2 Nc6 and now either 4.d3 or 4.c4?  I believe that they avoid the lines after 4.0-0 e5 5.d3 Be7 that you'd like to avoid.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1810
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #58 - 08/11/19 at 21:37:25
Post Tools
Many thanks for the kind words, Stigma, Seeley, and sorry I didn’t say so earlier – was away and ‘out of it’ all last week (and will be again this, on holiday). Yes, tongue firmly in cheek! But hope not too ungentle. ‘Provocations’ on here are happily rare (last I can remember must have been well over a couple of years ago). They seem rarer than ever in fact, or is just that the number of posts is getting fewer?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seeley
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 245
Location: UK
Joined: 04/03/10
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #57 - 08/08/19 at 00:20:42
Post Tools
Without wishing to become in embroiled in a discussion that doesn't concern me, I would strongly endorse this observation

Stigma wrote on 08/07/19 at 22:03:24:
People sometimes come here and ask lots of questions without contributing anything themselves, and calling them out on that is only fair. But Michael Ayton is definitely not in that category

and I hope that

Michael Ayton wrote on 08/06/19 at 09:20:37:
Chastened, I’m sure!

is tongue-in-cheek.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3041
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #56 - 08/07/19 at 22:03:24
Post Tools
XChess1971 wrote on 08/07/19 at 07:10:33:
Stigma wrote on 08/07/19 at 02:38:52:
XChess1971 wrote on 08/07/19 at 01:35:19:
Michael Ayton wrote on 08/06/19 at 09:20:37:
Quote:
You can't expect to be told everything in here. You have to do your homework.

And here was me daring to hope that the moves, if not the thoughts, I’d tentatively suggested – the result of a bit of, you know, homework – might even be interesting to someone other than myself or spark a bit of useful discussion sometime. Chastened, I’m sure!


Well you might wanna do more homework about additional questions!

What's going on with the rude, confrontational attitude, XChess1971? If you haven't noticed, Michael Ayton has contributed a lot more to discussions in this forum over the years than you have.


Rude??? I can contribute nothing. And it doesn't make less than anybody. Isn't your comment rude?
I gave him some ideas on the KIA. Because I am an expert on the system. Nobody is willing to reveal anything at all today and even worse teach you things for free. I do not make one single penny out of chess.
But being around 1000 books. I guess it could help me a little bit. Besides experience.

It's great that you're contributing ideas and experience. I hope you keep doing that if and when you feel like it. But obviously that was not what I was criticizing; it was the unnecessarily crass comments about "doing your homework".

People sometimes come here and ask lots of questions without contributing anything themselves, and calling them out on that is only fair. But Michael Ayton is definitely not in that category, that was my point.

Quote:
Nobody is willing to reveal anything at all today and even worse teach you things for free.

There is at least one place online where people have been willing to share and collaborate on chess analysis even if it meant revealing some of their own secrets: This very ChessPub Forum. True, there is less of it now than a few years ago, but I for one hope that spirit doesn't die out completely.
« Last Edit: 08/08/19 at 01:26:08 by Stigma »  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
XChess1971
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 143
Location: Allentown
Joined: 09/07/04
Gender: Male
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #55 - 08/07/19 at 08:02:47
Post Tools
ErictheRed wrote on 08/06/19 at 15:00:31:
Offhand I wonder whether, if White is intent on playing a King's Indian Attack instead of a reversed Grunfeld, he might not try 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 c5 3.Bg2 Nc6 4.d3 instead of castling.  Then 4...e5 5.Nbd2 Nf6 6.e4, for instance.

Or 4.c4(!) appears to avoid the move order problems presented by 5...Be7 as well. 

Edit: By the way, I won an easy little 3-minute game with this 5...Be7 idea just now, though as you can see I reverted back to my known "Bishop to knight 5" comfort zone.

Edit 2: I don't know why my PGN insertion isn't working, but the game went

1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. O-O e5 5. d3 Be7 6. e4 d4 7. a4 h5 8. h4 f6 9. Na3 Bg4 10. Nc4 Qd7 11. Bd2 O-O-O 12. Qc1 g5 13. hxg5 Bxf3 14. Bxf3 fxg5 15. Bxg5 h4 16. g4 Rf8 17. Be2 Nf6 18. f3 Nh5 19. Bxe7 Qxe7 20. gxh5 Qg7+ 21. Kh1 Qg3 22. Nd6+ Kb8 23. Rf2  Qxf2 24. Qf1 Qxf1+ 25. Rxf1 Rxh5 , etc.


It looks like that 8.h4 move is bad. Now your possible reaction on f4 is no longer available due to weakness created. Especially that hole on g4. Also that h4 is now a breaking point. 8.c3 looks much better with the idea of taking on d4, play Na3 and Bd2. All of that looking for cxd4, Nc4 and a5. Or even after cxd4 cxd4 by putting the bishop on d2 you can play b4 in one shot due to the e5 defended only by the Nc6. Also another option is 8.Na3 to play quickly to c4. In your game white didn't do anything to try to get counterplay. That's why even you sacrificed a pawn on the king side to open him up. Unfortunately that move 12.Qc1 doesn't prevent anything. INstead of 12...g5 it looks like 12...Nh6 dislodging g8 for a rook and planning between other things Nf7 to play g5 looks better. 16.g4 is bad. It looks like 16.Qd1 was a better option. Also instead of 16...Rf8 it had to be played 16...Nf6. The last mistake was 18.f3 (18.Bxf6 Bxf6 and 19. f4 was his last chance). White just didn't know how to get some play in the position and got busted.
Take a look into the pawn structure and you will see that it is a KID Saemisch with reversed colors!
Do you have the PGN to this game?
« Last Edit: 08/07/19 at 13:58:41 by XChess1971 »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
XChess1971
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 143
Location: Allentown
Joined: 09/07/04
Gender: Male
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #54 - 08/07/19 at 07:10:33
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 08/07/19 at 02:38:52:
XChess1971 wrote on 08/07/19 at 01:35:19:
Michael Ayton wrote on 08/06/19 at 09:20:37:
Quote:
You can't expect to be told everything in here. You have to do your homework.

And here was me daring to hope that the moves, if not the thoughts, I’d tentatively suggested – the result of a bit of, you know, homework – might even be interesting to someone other than myself or spark a bit of useful discussion sometime. Chastened, I’m sure!


Well you might wanna do more homework about additional questions!

What's going on with the rude, confrontational attitude, XChess1971? If you haven't noticed, Michael Ayton has contributed a lot more to discussions in this forum over the years than you have.

Stigma wrote on 08/07/19 at 02:38:52:
XChess1971 wrote on 08/07/19 at 01:35:19:
Michael Ayton wrote on 08/06/19 at 09:20:37:
Quote:
You can't expect to be told everything in here. You have to do your homework.

And here was me daring to hope that the moves, if not the thoughts, I’d tentatively suggested – the result of a bit of, you know, homework – might even be interesting to someone other than myself or spark a bit of useful discussion sometime. Chastened, I’m sure!


Well you might wanna do more homework about additional questions!

What's going on with the rude, confrontational attitude, XChess1971? If you haven't noticed, Michael Ayton has contributed a lot more to discussions in this forum over the years than you have.


Rude??? I can contribute nothing. And it doesn't make less than anybody. Isn't your comment rude?
I gave him some ideas on the KIA. Because I am an expert on the system. Nobody is willing to reveal anything at all today and even worse teach you things for free. I do not make one single penny out of chess.
But being around 1000 books. I guess it could help me a little bit. Besides experience.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3041
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #53 - 08/07/19 at 02:38:52
Post Tools
XChess1971 wrote on 08/07/19 at 01:35:19:
Michael Ayton wrote on 08/06/19 at 09:20:37:
Quote:
You can't expect to be told everything in here. You have to do your homework.

And here was me daring to hope that the moves, if not the thoughts, I’d tentatively suggested – the result of a bit of, you know, homework – might even be interesting to someone other than myself or spark a bit of useful discussion sometime. Chastened, I’m sure!


Well you might wanna do more homework about additional questions!

What's going on with the rude, confrontational attitude, XChess1971? If you haven't noticed, Michael Ayton has contributed a lot more to discussions in this forum over the years than you have.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
XChess1971
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 143
Location: Allentown
Joined: 09/07/04
Gender: Male
Re: King's Indian Attack
Reply #52 - 08/07/19 at 01:35:19
Post Tools
Michael Ayton wrote on 08/06/19 at 09:20:37:
Quote:
You can't expect to be told everything in here. You have to do your homework.

And here was me daring to hope that the moves, if not the thoughts, I’d tentatively suggested – the result of a bit of, you know, homework – might even be interesting to someone other than myself or spark a bit of useful discussion sometime. Chastened, I’m sure!


Well you might wanna do more homework about additional questions!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo