an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 11/04/20 at 18:07:08:

I agree and thanks for posting the Blohberger - Wernberg game and analysis. Black's move order (1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. O-O e5) is very straightforward. By the way McDonald covers the King's Indian reversed:  "I probably shouldn’t shout it too loudly, but objectively speaking the King’s Indian Reversed is the biggest enemy of the King’s Indian Attack." Perhaps, I should apologize for the shout out, but there it is.

From this move order, White can play 4d4 often leading to a Catalan, with an early ...Nc6, or a Tarrasch QGD.

FreeRepublic wrote on 06/04/24 at 01:22:08:

I'm reminded of Raymond Keene in 1977 ("when he was still writing good books" -- AOC): "Probably the most common reply to Reti's I N-KB3 in modern tournament chess. Black angles for transposltlon to an ordinary Sicilian. Once I fell into the trap of playing 2 P-K4 (against Karpov) and lost."

(By the way, part of that game was used by IM Julio Kaplan in an instructional article on pawn play.)

I think the KIA can fit naturally into Reti, anti-Reti play.

My objection to 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 is 4. d4! with Gruenfeld Indian Attack (GIA).

From the Black perspective, I'm considering:

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 d5 3. Bg2 e6 4. O-O Be7 Black has waited long enough that White must commit to some pawn advance.



There is 5d3, leading to the KIA topic of this thread. At least both sides can hope for some play.

5.d4 may lead to a Catalan, but many of Black's more dynamic options are no longer available. Some form of main-line beckons.

5.c4 asks for a reversed Benoni. However, this is not forced. For example, 
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 d5 3. Bg2 e6 4. O-O Be7 5. c4 O-O 6. b3 c5 7. cd5 ed5 8. d4 Nc6 9. Bb2 Ne4 10. Nc3 Bf6 is the Tarrasch defense.

I think these Reversed King's Indian positions are interesting for both sides. I don't mind either color. In rated play I used to favor 5...f6, but in offhand chess (not lately due to COVID) I have switched to 5...Be7. Is the below game relevant? See notes from ChessBase in the attachment.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/siem-van-dael-unorthodox-openings-lead-to-success

1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 c5 3.Bg2 Nc6 4.O-O e5 5.d3 Be7 6.Na3  Be6  7.c3   
7.e4 d4 8.Nc4 f6 9.a4 Qd7 10.Ne1 g5 11.f4 gxf4 12.gxf4 O-O-O 13. f5 Bxc4 14.dxc4 (1:0, 61) Wynn -Ismail, Nay Pyi Taw 2013
7...g5 8.e4



8...g4 9.Ng5! +/- (1:0, 28) Blohberger - Wernberg, Uppsala Young Champions 2020

VGA wrote on 11/19/19 at 14:20:35:


I see the author uses a number of old Fischer games as illustrations. Unless he has something new to say, these games and the ideas in them would be familiar from when they first appeared in 1960s and 1970s magazines and books.

Just back from the second of my three summer 'aways' to see these great posts. Excellent stuff, Eric -- thanks for it! It seems to me now (admittedly on just a quick butcher's) that 7 ...Qc7 must be better than 7 ...f6, as you suggest. V. useful Saemisch analogy, too ...

All this has got me thinking how superficial most of the literature I've seen on the KIA is! I can think of at least two good reasons why no one might be massively keen on writing a good book on the subject, but you'd have thought someone would have managed to dig down a bit rather than recycling the same half-dozen lines of old 'analysis' and 'famous games'! ...

For the record, I'm much higher on 4.c4 than I am on 4.d3; if your only problem with 4.0-0 e5 5.c4 is a transposition to a reversed Maroczy bind, then I think that 4.c4 is a very good solution.  Obviously, after 4.c4 Black could play an early ...e6 somewhere and you're likely back in a Tarrasch defense of some sort.  

Regarding 4.d3, I claim no advantage for White.  However, my understanding is that it's specifically 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. O-O e5 5. d3 Be7 that is the problem, largely because of 6. e4 d4 7. a4 h5!.  So I do think that White benefits by postponing castling here.  If 4.d3 e5 5.Nbd2 Be7, White could continue flexibly with 6.c3.  

Probably best is 6.e4 d4 7.Nc4, when 7...f6 looks a little odd in combination with 5...Be7 to me.  For instance, now White might play 8.0-0 here, because of h5? 9.Nh4!.  8.0-0 b5 9.Na3 a6 (perhaps not best) 10.Nh4 looks OK for White to me, also.  Perhaps even better than castling on move 8 would be 8.Nh4, which avoids all of those pawn-push lines from Black.  I'm talking about 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4.d3 e5 5.Nbd2 Be7 6.e4 d4 7.Nc4 f6 8.Nh4!?.  I think that a KIA player should be pretty happy with White there.  

The problem is probably 7...f6?!.  I'm sure that 7...Qc7 must be better in an ultimate sense, but now I think that White has avoided the worst of the kingside pawn-pushing lines  because the queen is slightly misplaced there (no longer in contact with the kingside and h4).  White could try 8.a4, and if 8...Bg4 use a trick like 9.0-0 h5 10.Qe1 h4 11.Nxh4 Bxh4 12.gh Rxh4 13.f3!  Or if he doesn't want to castle yet, perhaps 9.c3.  

Again I don't claim any advantage for White, but I think that there are subtleties here that favor White compared to the 4.0-0 line I gave above.  A KIA player could do some independent research and come up with a solution that works for them.