kylemeister - Thanks for the historical tidbits. A database search supports your impression that ...Ne8 never really caught on. It's only been played occasionally over the years, with Tringov- Lee being among the first examples. Perhaps it's because the move never had a prominent supporter who played it regularly. The search showed ...Ne8 being adopted a couple times each by Sveshnikov and Karjakin, but that's about it. In his book, Lakdawala stated that ...Ne8 is a specialty of German GM Klaus Bischoff, and he has played it close to a half dozen times. 

One of the more recent games found in the search was V.Pranav-D.Dubov, Titled Tuesday Blitz 13.09.2022, where Dubov executed the transfer of the knight from e8 to f5. Maybe it's a sign of Russian chess culture that a top young player is aware of the idea behind the rather obscure ...Ne8.

Finally, I wonder if Keene's comment on overprotection was due to a heightened awareness stemming from writing his Nimzowitsch biography. Incidentally, that book, Aron Nimzowitsch - A Reappraisal, was my first exposure to "The Immortal Overprotection Game".

kylemeister - Thanks for the information in Reply #82. I had formed a mistaken impression that the "newfangled" line involved some sort of Alpha Zero inspired charge of the black a-pawn down the board to a3. As you noted, the Schandorff video shows that he recommends the old main line. I was amused when he ended the KIA portion of the video by saying, "I don't think we'll get mated". That didn't come across as the most ringing endorsement for his suggested line, but perhaps it was just a modest understatement on his part. 

The modern mainline setup presented in the June 2022 ChessPublishing update is interesting. Dropping the black bishop to f8 does reinforce the h6-pawn, but White can pile up attackers by forming a bishop + queen battery on the c1-h6 diagonal while bringing a knight to g4. White's concentration of force brings to mind the McDonald quote that FreeRepublic brought up in Reply #77. It's not the most comforting thing to see those opposing pieces massing around the black king. This new mainline setup may be fine in theory, but practical considerations may explain why virtually all of the Black French repertoire books recommend continuations other than the traditional main line against the KIA. The one exception that comes to mind is Lakdawala's Opening Repertoire: The French Defence. Even here there's a difference. After White's e4-e5, the knight on f6 retreats to e8, not d7. Lakdawala explains that it's start of the long-winded maneuver ...Ne8-c7-b5-d4-f5, with the knight being "weirdly powerful" on f5 and keeping the black king safer than in the usual main line.

Finally, on a humorous note, when watching that video of the Yoo-Murzin game, I saw how Black's ...Qc7 compelled Qe2, adding to the forces supporting the white e5-pawn. The sight of a significant portion of White's pieces (including the queen) being committed to the defense of that pawn reminded me of a similar but more extreme instance in the famous "game" Nimzowitsch-Systemsson, Copenhagen 1927; i.e., "The Immortal Overprotection Game". Perhaps White's success in the KIA is due to the overprotection of the e5-pawn!

FreeRepublic wrote on 06/06/24 at 18:05:22:

Via 6. Na3.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=2052383

FreeRepublic wrote on 06/06/24 at 14:16:35:

In the case of 8. Nc4 Qc7 9. a4, I gather Black needs an improvement on a rapid game Rapport-Caruana.

Speaking of losing tempi in King's Indian systems, this led me to check on the line 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 0-0 6. Bd3 Bg4 7. Be2. In a Titled Tuesday (blitz) game this year after 7...e5 8. d5 a5 9. Be3 Na6 10. Nd2, Black (Jakub Kosakowski, a young Polish IM -- "KosakChess" on YouTube) apparently decided to outdo White in the tempi-losing department with 10...Bc8. I think that doesn't inspire confidence.

Nernstian59 wrote on 06/05/24 at 22:05:29:

I was thinking of the kind of thing seen in Monsieur Quenehen's video (that is, Yoo-Murzin ... he then shows Fischer-Myagmarsuren). I see a reference here to "the modern mainline setup."
https://www.chesspublishing.com/content/12/jun22.htm

I too wonder about the details re Schandorff; also a bit at about 13 mins. in the introductory video would seem to indicate that he decided to stick with playing it the old way.

kylemeister wrote on 06/04/24 at 14:20:07:


I started watching it, and will return to it later. It's fun to listen to a native French speaker. He speaks faster than I can process what I hear. The content of the video looks good and Quenehen presents with enthusiasm.

FreeRepublic wrote on 06/04/24 at 14:06:06:

On this subject, another random thing I came across is a video from the French chess YouTuber Marc Quenehen, showing a game between Christopher Yoo and Volodar Murzin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgu_AyigveI

ErictheRed wrote on 08/17/19 at 16:31:33:

Duly noted, and thanks for your analysis of 4d3.