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Normal Topic Playing the UD vs the English (Read 2432 times)
Uberdecker
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Re: Playing the UD vs the English
Reply #7 - 01/03/07 at 22:54:24
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I would never dream of calling that theory. More of a light joke. Works well in blitz though, and there is an (in)esthetic quality that appeals to me. Anyway, I dare say I've thought up some rather sounder openings than that. Nothing very deeply analysed, just some interesting ideas.
  
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MNb
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Re: Playing the UD vs the English
Reply #6 - 01/03/07 at 20:49:36
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??? I recall creating some theory on 1.e4 e6 2.a4 .... Seems not that lazy to me.
  

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Uberdecker
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Re: Playing the UD vs the English
Reply #5 - 01/02/07 at 13:37:58
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Thanks Frendo. Your suggestion doesn't quite blend well with my laziness, but I'll think about it.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: Playing the UD vs the English
Reply #4 - 01/02/07 at 02:02:03
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There are only 2 games on Chesspub that start 1.c4 Nc6 and they both continue with 2...e5.  I searched for games with an early ...Nc6 after 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 Bb4, but didn't find any.  Looks as though you'll have to continue to create your own theory.
  
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Uberdecker
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Re: Playing the UD vs the English
Reply #3 - 12/30/06 at 12:35:24
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Surely a subscriber could give me a vague idea as to what the Chesspublishing repertoire's interpertation of 1. c4 Ktc6 is, without revealing classified information.
  
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Uberdecker
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Re: Playing the UD vs the English
Reply #2 - 12/27/06 at 10:17:16
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Dear Mark,

Thanks for the research. You are less lazy than helpful...
I feel that objectively, each opening move should be treated independantly, but of course it's a very handy practical decision to transpose and employ similar set-ups against various flank openings.
The Catalan-type set-up you mention is a serious candidate for me, but rather than 5. ...d5, I am considering 3. ...d5 and 3. ...Ktf6 ; 4. Bg2 d5. This appears to make sense, as in answer to 1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6 ; 3. g3 I am taking up 3. ...d5 and 3. ...Ktf6 ; 4. Bg2 d5.
Here too, I assumed that White might have some independant English reply, but actually the Knight's placement on -c3 can be a liability due to threats of ...d4, so his best is probably to transpose immediately with 4. d4 and 5. d4 respectively.
Funny to see an example of 3. ...Rb8, although White's play strikes me as rather complacent. In any case, this should be sounder for Black than the cheeky 1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6 ; 3. g3 Rb8 ; 4. Bg2 b5 that I have been wheeling out in my informal games.
I did actually play 1. c4 e6 ; 2. Ktc3 Bb4 for a while (well before I developped the UD), but I was bothered by 2. g3. White is more flexible than in the above Catalan-type lines as he has not brought out his QKnight.

                                                                          Regards,
                                                                              Hubert
« Last Edit: 12/27/06 at 15:57:34 by Uberdecker »  
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MNb
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Re: Playing the UD vs the English
Reply #1 - 12/27/06 at 01:44:25
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You are still not as lazy as I am, as I play basically the same setup against 1.d4, 1.c4, 1.Nf3, 1.g3 and 1.b3. It is a good idea of course to restrict your repertoire this way. In the examples I have found, Black usually transposed to a kind of Catalan with 5...d5. I guess 5...o-o 6.o-o d5 is the same. Also 5...d6 6.o-o e5 has been played, when White omitted 7.d4.
Like you I distrust 4...f5 because of 5.e4, as it is not clear to me, what Bb4 is exactly doing there.
Even the idea 3...Rb8 4.Bg2 a6 has been played before: Khurtsilava-Schwartz, Baunatal 1998 went 5.b3 b5 6.cxb5 axb5 7.Bb2 Nf6 8.Nf3 Be7 9.o-o o-o 10.d4 b4 11.Na4 Ba6 and Black's position looks decent to me.
Maybe you can change move order a bit? 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 Bb4 has been played by Bronstein and Taimanov. You will only play ...Nc6 when it suits you.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Uberdecker
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Playing the UD vs the English
12/26/06 at 17:34:37
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Being a lazy bloke, I have recently been trying to reduce the size of my repertoire by adapting my QP Defence (1. d4 e6 ; 2. c4 Ktc6) to a 1. c4 move-order. My initial attempts with 1. c4 Ktc6 have been rather inconclusive.

My latest standard game ran [b]2. Ktc3 [/b](2. g3 e5 / 2. Ktf3 Ktf6 are other possibilities of course) [b]e6 ; 3. g3 Bb4 [/b](I'm not quite so desperate as to have gone for 3. ...Rb8 ; 4. Bg2 a6 ; 5. Ktf3 b5 or 5. d4 b5 yet, but it may come!) ; [b]4. Bg2 Ktf6 [/b]An important moment. This position must be known to theory through the move-order 1. c4 Ktf6 ; 2. Ktc3 e6 ; 3. g3 Bb4 ; 4. Bg2 but the question is what is the pedigree of 4. ...Ktc6 ? Here the alternative was to keep the game within independant territory with 4. ...f5, but I was a bit wary of the reply 5. e4 which in fact occured in an earlier rapid game of mine. I got a good position, but White has some nasty tactical ideas here. [b]5. Ktf3 0-0 ; 6. 0-0 d6 ; 7. d3[/b] White decides to keep the game within the bounds of the English. 7. d4 here or earlier would have led to a Romanishin Nimzo-Indian. [b]Bxc3[/b]The most consistant move, but not necessarily best. Here I considered two other courses : 7. ...a5 ; 8. Bd2 e5 ; 9. a3 Bxc3 ; 10. Bxc3 a4 and 9. ...Bc5. Admitedly the first leaves Black with the same problems as with the text, but the second, while decidedly dodgy-looking, does leave White wondering whether he wants to go to the bother of fighting for -d4 with 10. e3 etc [b]8. bc e5[/b] And here I got some respite as my opponent chose [b]9. Rb1 [/b]allowing [b]9. ...e4 [/b] after which he still had some advantage but nothing compared to the squeeze I would have suffered under in the event of 9. e4 intending Kth4 (perhaps preceded by Be3 threatening c5), Qe1 and f4. Black has absolutely no play. The worst of it is that I saw all this coming virtually from move 1, but could not muster sufficient belief in any of the alternatives to deviate from this path.

Anyway, I noticed that there was a suggested ChessPublishing repertoire featuring  1. c4 Ktc6 (in addition to the decidedly dubious 1. d4 Ktc6) and I was wondering what others' interpretation of this move might be. Perhaps a subscriber could enlighten me without giving away too much information.
Until then you can be sure that I will treat 1. c4 as an independant move!
  
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