lg wrote on 02/09/07 at 16:00:53:


White is better but not necessarily won, I think.  After your 24. g4. 24...Bg6 may be best, the point being that after 25. Bc4 Bd2 26. Bxe6+ Kb8, White's Bf5 isn't effective.  Instead 27. Rf3 Be4  28. Rd1 Bxf3  29. Rxd2 c5 and although White is better, the win doesn't look easy to this player of, I admit, only middling strength.

I don't know if the line can be saved by such considerations, but perhaps it can.  However, I don't have an answer for 20. Bg5 Rdf8  21. Nxh8 Rxh8  22. Qc3 h6  23. Bh4! when it looks like Black doesn't have much except the pawn to compensate for the lost exchange.  Perhaps Black can hold after 23...Qe4  24. Bg3 Ne2  25. Bxe2 Qxe2  26. Rae1 Qb5  27. Rxf5 exf5  28. e6 Rg8.

lg wrote on 01/23/07 at 15:07:59:


I just found some time to look at your very generously offered ideas.

I disagree that 19. Nxh8 is good for White: 19...Nc2  20. Bxe6+ Bxe6  21. Bxc5 Nxa1  22. Bxa7 (22. Nf7 Rd5 =) 22...Qxc1  23. Rxc1 Rxh8 =.

I agree that 19. Kh2 is a strong move, indeed it seems best.  Black should play 19...Bb6 (so as to enable ...Nc2) and Black appears to have some compensation for his exchange.  For example 20. Nxh8 Rxh8  21. Rf4 Rd8 is almost O.K. for Black, perhaps not quite.  Or 20. b3 h6  21. Nxh8 Rxh8  22. Qd2 Rd8  23. Qf2 Nc2  24. Bxb6 Nxa1  25. Bxa7 Nc2.

It's late, so I'll address your other ideas still later. 

Markovich

One thing i noticed in our discussions is that in many lines Black's black bishop does not leave
its original square. 

perhaps you could try (I am analysing it now) moving the other bishop with
9...Qd7  10. Be2 0-0-0  11. 0-0 Bb4 and get rid of the bishop with BxN

lg

Markovich

here are some variations:

after 9...Qd7  10. Be2 0-0-0  11. 0-0 Bg4 12. c5 Nd5  13. Nxd5 Qxd5 14 h3! (which in my opinion
appears to be a good move)

i) 14... h5 ?! (!?) - well, this sacrifice does not appear to lead to the worst variation for Black. Play can continue as follows 15 hxB hxg 16 Ng5 Bxc5 (Black gives another piece) 17 dxc (Nxf7 seems to be OK for Black) Qxe5 18 Qb3 Nd4 (I think this is better than play 18 ... Qh2+) 19 BxN RxB 20 c6 (better than
Rxf7 I think) Qh2+ 21 Kf2 Qh4+ 22 Nf3 bxc (this appears to be better than b6) 23 Rh1 RxR 24 RxR gxN
(Black recovers one piece) and we have Black with 3 pawns for a piece. What do you think

ii) 14 ... BxN 15 BxB Qc4 (as suggested by Hort as unclear and mentioned in many other books). This 
puzzles me. I agree with you and cannot see why it is unclear after 16 BxN PxB 17 R(a) c1.
I tried 17 ... Qb5 18 Rxf7 Bxc5 19 Qg4 and White is much better. By the way, note also the variation
17....Qd5 (?!) 18 Qa4 f6 19 exf (?!) gxf 20 Rxf Rg8 and although White appears to be better I think
Black should be happy to have some attach along the king side

iii) 14 ... Bh5. I agree with what you said that after 15 Ng5 this can transpose to "known" lines where
White benefits (a lot) by having the luft given by h2. Note, however, that Black can play (after 15 Ng5)
15 ... Bg6 and here I think 16 Bf3 is Ok for White but teh3 greedy 16 Nxf appers to be Ok
for Black

iv) 14... Qe4. Then 15. Qb3 Nxd4  16. Nxd4 Bxe7  17. Rf4 Qxe5  18. Nxe2 Bxc5 gives 3 pawns for a
piece for Black and I dont know how to access this. Perhaps playing a bit with a computer might
tell us what one can do with each side.

v) 14... Qe4. Then 15. Qb3 Nxd4  16. Nxd4 Bxe7 17. Rf4 Qxf4 (!?) 18 Bxf4 Bxc5 19 Be3 Rxd4 20 Bxd4
Bxd4 + and Black has two bishops and two pawns for a queen

vi) 14... Qe4. Then 15. Qb3 Nxd4  16. Nxd4 Bxe7 17. Rf4 Qxf4 (!?) 18 c6 Qxe3 (18 ... b6) 19 QxQ Bc5
20 cxb+ Kxc 21 QxB Bxd + and Black has a Rook, bishop and Pawn for a Queen

vii) 14... Qe4. Then 15 Qc1 Bf5 (can we do something different here? I really dont like to push back the bishop) 16. Ng5 Nxd4 17. Bc4 Qc6 18. Nxf7 Bxc5 19. Qc3 appears to be bad because of 19 ... b5!.
However, I dont understand why White plays 19 Qc3. For instance 19 Kh2 appears to be (much) better.
Then, if 19 ... b5 20 Bb3 and Black, now, does not have the Knight check on e2. I also think that 
19 NxR(h) is playable and gives White the better game.

viii) (your latest) 14 ... Qe4 15 Qc1 f6  17. exf6 gxf6  18. Rae1 Rag8  19. Kh1 might be playable but
by taking the pawn, White is allowing Black a an attack on the g column. Perhaps 17 Bc4 fxe 18 dxe is
better

to summarize, I think 14 h3 is better than it ha sbeen advertised. My preferred Balck lines are
the gambit lines and I dont like to push back the bishop to f5. Well, I dont like to push the bishop
to g4 either (neither in the 9th move).

lg

Markovich

After

"He should play instead  15. Qc1 after which Black has no better than 15...Bf5.  Then 16. Ng5 Nxd4  17. Bc4 Qc6 (17...Qh4  18. c6 is even worse) 18. Nxf7 Bxc5  19. Qc3"

Black can play 19 ... B5!

After 20 Nxd8 Rxd8 21 Rad1 (White has no good place to move the Bishop) bxB 22 RxN BxR 23 BxB
I think Black is better, no?

lg

and finally (for the moment) you should analise the piece (or 2 pieces) sacrifice
after 14 h3 as follows: 14... h5 15 hxB hxg 16 Ng5 Bxc5 17 dxc Qxe5 18 Qb3 Nd4 19 BxN RxB

I think Black may not gain anything with this but perhaps a better look should be taken

lg

Sorry, on

"can't black play 17 ... Qxf4 ? and then play with 2 Bishops and Rook for a Queen?"

I meant either Bishop and Rook for a Queen or a 2 Bishops for a Queen

lg

Markovich

Somewhile ago we ahd a discussion on anothe rline of yours on this variation. You also did some
good comments on 11... Kb8 (instead of Bg4). So, it will be a pleasure to get back again to some
discussions with you. Just give some (little) time.

However, I am writing to you about a different line. It is known that after 9...Qd7, 10 d5 is not a good move.

I am not sure. Consider the following variation

9 ... Qd7 10 d5 exd 11 BxN (the "new" move that may prove to be interesting - note a similar idea
appears with 9... Be7, but here we may use the fact that the black Queen is in d7 in order to
threaten Bb5 in good conditions for White) 11... RPxB 12 cxd Nb4 13 Rc1 (better than 13 Nd4 Bc5 and I
think Black is better) 13 ... Ra5 (11...NxRP leads to an interesting funny variation discussed here
somewhile ago by myself and IM J Cox where he gave a quite funny variation, but i think White is better)
14 d6 (I like this move; however I have analised 14 a3 and 14 Bc4 but i was not happy with White)
and now, if 14 ... cxd 15 Qd4 appears to be strong for White.
Well, what do you think?

I will be in touch with your variation, lg

I posted here:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1158540272/15

my analysis of Minasian-Donchenko, USSR 1988, a game that is widely regarded as refuting  9...Qd7  10. Be2 0-0-0  11. 0-0 Bg4.  White played 12. c5 Nd5  13. Nxd5 Qxd5  14. b4.  Basically I think that with correct play, Donchenko should have drawn.  Anyone can look at what I said there and tell me if they disagree.

More recently, it has appeared to me that "the" critical move may not be 14. b4, but 14. h3!  Here Hort alleged that 14...Bxf3 15. Bxf3 Qc4 was unclear, but that judgement appears to me to be very much mistaken.  For one thing, White can just play 16. Bxc6, after which I think he can be confident of the full point.

To understand why the natural 14...Bh5 doesn't work, please note that after 14. Ng5 (instead of 14. h3) 14...Bxe2  15. Qxe2 Nxd4  16. Bxd4 Qxd4+  17. Kh1 Qd2! Black just barely achieves an equal ending.  But the analogue with 14. h3 thrown in is bad for Black, since with his little bit of luft, White can later lift both rooks with impunity.   

Now in Burgess's book, it says that 14. h3 Qe4  15. Qb3 Nxd4"!" 16. Nxd4 Bxe2  17. Rf4 Qd3  18. Nxe2 Qxe2  19. Rxf7 Rd5  20. Raf1 Qxe3 equalizes, as allegedly analyzed by Nunn.  Well, whoever analyzed this missed that White saves his queen by means of 21. Rxc7+.  Black is lost.  Instead of 17...Qd3, Black must play 17...Qxe5  18. Nxe2 Bxc5  19. Bxc5 Qxc5+, when Black's three pawns may be sufficient against White's knight, though I have my misgivings.

Worse still however, White has better than 15. Qb3.  He should play instead  15. Qc1 after which Black has no better than 15...Bf5.  Then 16. Ng5 Nxd4  17. Bc4 Qc6 (17...Qh4  18. c6 is even worse) 18. Nxf7 Bxc5  19. Qc3 and Black will have only one pawn for his exchange, with no apparent compensation.  From this I concluded that 14...Qe4 cannot be played.

That leaves precisely one move: 14...Bf5.  By this series of moves, relative to 11. c5 (instead of 11. 0-0) 11...Nd5  12. Nxd5 Qxd5, Black has lost TWO tempi: h2-h3 and 0-0.  It is White to move, and it is not clear to me that Black can stir up enough play against White's center before he gets bashed on the queenside.  Certainly Black must very soon play ...f6; what else is there?   

It seems to me that 14. h3! Bf5!, more than 14. b4, is critical for Black's system.  I would be very curious to know what anyone thinks about Black's chances here.