(UTC)
Latest Updates:
(Moderator: MNb)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
Normal Topic New concept against 9.0-0-0 (Read 3847 times)
MNb
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10758
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: New concept against 9.0-0-0
Reply #6 - 01/15/07 at 01:40:42
Post Tools
Well, you are the expert, not me. But superficial research already revealed some points: 10.h4 h5 11.Be2 Rc8 (Ne5 12.Bh6!? Rc8 13.g4) 12.Kb1 (12.g4!? is possible) Ne5 13.Bh6!? and 13.g4!? have both been played with success. Also 13.Bg5 b5 (not Nc4? 14.Bxc4 or Qa5?! 14.Nd5!, ...Re8 14.g4!?) 14.g4 and Black still played Nc4. I can't help having the impression, that White's attack goes fast. Maybe the bishop is more active on c4 than on b3, but on e2 it supports the standard and desirable attacking move g2-g4.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FightingDragon
Senior Member
****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 267
Joined: 05/12/04
Re: New concept against 9.0-0-0
Reply #5 - 01/14/07 at 22:01:14
Post Tools
Hey, Scholar, I think you have convinced me that my idea is unsound.
Both 12.Bc4 and h4 seem to give white an advantage.

@Mnb: after 10.h4 h5 11.Kb1 Ne5 12.Be2 Rc8 13.Rhe1 I would prefer 13. ... Re8 as black.
Further plans could include for example Qa5 or a6, b5. It is true that white has saved a tempo, but the bishop would be placed more actively on b3.
The key is not to play Nc4 as white would get an improved Soltis, as you mentioned.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10758
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: New concept against 9.0-0-0
Reply #4 - 01/13/07 at 20:56:38
Post Tools
FightingDragon wrote on 01/13/07 at 12:12:50:
10.h4 is absolutely no problem as black is fine after 10. ... h5.
So those interested in the variation should analyse 10.Kb1.
When you say that this variation is no solution, do you think a solution comes as easy as that?
Of course if it was a solution, the concrete problems have to be solved with analysis.

The practical punch may be to surprise the white player, as 10.g4 is clearly the most popular move in the position.


I don't think anything, as I don't have spend nearly enough time to this idea to draw any conclusion. I just typed my impressions based on a 10 minutes database research.
If 10.h4 h5 is that fine for Black, he does remarkably awkward with White scoring more than 60% in more than 90 games. So 10.h4 is really worth a closer look from White's point of view, isn't it? I am curious to learn, how Black will avoid the Soltis with a tempo down, like 10.h4 h5 11.Kb1 Ne5 12.Be2 Rc8 13.Rhe1 (Bh6) Nc4 14.Bxc4 Rxc4 15.Bg5 - just a few reasonable moves.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Scholar
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 557
Location: Chicago
Joined: 04/26/04
Re: New concept against 9.0-0-0
Reply #3 - 01/13/07 at 20:24:33
Post Tools
This is an interesting idea.  I admit that I have already forgotten whether there were other lines which Black would want to avoid in the 9.0-0-0 Nxd4 complex, so I may be missing out on some ideas for White here.

Here are some quick thoughts after: 9.0-0-0 Bd7 10.g4 Nxd4 11.Bxd4 Qa5

12.Bc4 -- this cuts across Black's plans, and leads to positions similar to 9.Bc4 Nxd4 10.Bxd4 Qa5 11.0-0-0 Be6 -- White has g4 to Black's Bd7, and Be6 has to be coming soon, so this may be a lost tempo.

12.h4 the obvious 12...Be6 hoping for 13.Kb1 transposing into old lines would probably be met by 13.a3 instead, and it is not entirely clear to me what Black's plan is.  White will play h4-h5xg6 with his typically good play, and with the bishop on the a2-g8 diagonal rather than the a6-f1 diagonal, I suspect he has an improved version.

if 12...Rfc8 then 13.h5 Qa5 14.a3 Rab8 15.hxg6 hxg6 16.Qh2 b5 17.e5 dxe5 18.Bxe5 is strong -- Iwaniuk,D - Ramos,M; Wch U16 Girls Guarapuava (3), 1995.

The most popular move in my database is 12...b5, and in light of the above, this is perhaps strongest.  Now 13.g5 is awkward because of 13...Nh5 14.Nd5.  Play is complicated, but I suspect analysis will show that white is better.  I think this, rather than 12.Kb1, is the critical line that should be checked first.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FightingDragon
Senior Member
****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 267
Joined: 05/12/04
Re: New concept against 9.0-0-0
Reply #2 - 01/13/07 at 12:12:50
Post Tools
10.h4 is absolutely no problem as black is fine after 10. ... h5.
So those interested in the variation should analyse 10.Kb1.
When you say that this variation is no solution, do you think a solution comes as easy as that?
Of course if it was a solution, the concrete problems have to be solved with analysis.

The practical punch may be to surprise the white player, as 10.g4 is clearly the most popular move in the position.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10758
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: New concept against 9.0-0-0
Reply #1 - 01/13/07 at 04:03:32
Post Tools
Sorry to disappoint you, but it has been played before - at least 9 times.
12.h4 b5 13.g5 Nh5 14.Nd5 Atienza-Tamashiro, Almoradi 1998.
12.Kb1 Rfc8 13.g5 Nh5 14.Bxg7 (14.Nxd5!?) Nxg7 15.Nd5 Strehlow-Krützfeld, Potsdam 1997.
The oldest game Kosmac-Stojnic, SLO 1993, 12.Kb1 Rfc8 13.h4 Be6 apparently surprised White: 14.h5 Rxc3 and Black won.

The idea to lose at tempo with Bc8-d7-e6 iso Dd8-c7-a5 is remarkable. But indeed White has 10.Kb1 and also 10.h4. So 9...Bd7 may not be the solution to the 9.0-0-0 problem.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FightingDragon
Senior Member
****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 267
Joined: 05/12/04
New concept against 9.0-0-0
01/12/07 at 21:09:29
Post Tools
I've got a whole new concept against white's main variation with 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd4: 4.Nd4: Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.0-0-0 :
The idea is to play 9. ... Bd7 and to reach an acceptable version of the 9. ... Nd4:-variation

Confused?  Wink

This is the idea:
9. ... Bd7 10.g4 (white's main move) Nd4:! 11.Bd4: Qa5 12.Kb1 Rfc8 13.h4 Be6 and black has avoided the most dangerous variation with h2-h4-h5 (without g4) and reached a good position.
Of course 13.g5 is a possibility, but it doesn't look threatening to me.

So perhaps white's best move is 10.Kb1 ?!
Now 10. ... Nd4?! is weak because of 11.Bd4: Qa5? 12.Nd5! Qd2: 13.Ne7:
Black can play 10. ... Qa5 when I think that 11.Nb3!? Qc7 12.h4 is critical.
The other way to play is along the traditional Bd7-line, but I think black has problems against 10 . ... Rc8 11.g4 Ne5 12.Be2!?

So what do the experts think?
Does the idea already exist?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge