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Sämisch - Panno Blacks plays Ne7 (Read 4103 times)

thibdb13 God Member Offline Tal was the best Posts: 974 Location: Mechelen Joined: 01/25/07 Gender:	Re: Sämisch - Panno Blacks plays Ne7 Reply #4 - 02/08/07 at 12:35:44	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks for the explanations

	Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4977 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Sämisch - Panno Blacks plays Ne7 Reply #3 - 02/07/07 at 20:19:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	thibdb13 wrote on 02/07/07 at 19:21:01: kylemeister wrote on 02/07/07 at 17:46:18: thibdb13 wrote on 02/07/07 at 09:40:17: I just wanted to know the point of view of players that are more specialized than me about this line: 1. d4-Nf6 2. c4-g6 3. Nc3-Bg7 4. e4-d6 5. f3-00 6. Be3-Nc6 7. Nge2-e5 8.d5-Nge7 (in place of the more usual Nd4) What should white now do? I am allways trying to push on the Q-side (with moves such as Qd2, ooo, Kb1, Rc1, c5,...) and my results are not bad (never lost to players at about 1800-2000 but also very few wins) but the database of chessgames.com gives g4 (or h4) with a very high percentage for white but with very few games. Where should I then go for K or Q-side attack? 8...Nd4 looks like it just hangs a pawn; maybe you meant 7. Qd2. 7...e5 looks dubious/premature, whereas it would be normal after say 7...a6 8. Nc1 (and if 9. d5 Nd4). After 8...Ne7 I would think White would look to the K-side, at least to begin with (9. Qd2 and 10. g4 perhaps). You are right, I forgot that Nd4 is just possible with the following move order: 7...-a6 8.Qd2-Rb8 9.Nc1-e5 10. d5-Nd4 where white must not take the pawn because of 11. Bd4-ed4 12.Qd4-Ne4 13. Qe4-Re8 (Chris Ward's bookis really interesting!!) But, more to the point, the conclusion would be that 7...-e5 comes too early and is dangerous for black when White starts a K-side attack without delay? Even in the absence of that ...Nxe4 trick, ...Nd4 is often sound if White has to give up his dark-squared bishop to win the pawn. The usual rule is that Black waits for White to move his knight around (like Nge2 and Nc1 or Ng3) before playing ...e5 (and then meets d5 with ...Nd4). It seems that 7...e5 isn't really bad, but it's the kind of line where books have "+=" all over the place, with no "=" in sight. After 9. Qd2 and g4, White's focus may later turn back to the Q-side (the K-side could become rather blockaded). You might find more games via the move order 6...e5 7. Nge2 Nc6, if that makes any difference.


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thibdb13 God Member Offline Tal was the best Posts: 974 Location: Mechelen Joined: 01/25/07 Gender:	Re: Sämisch - Panno Blacks plays Ne7 Reply #2 - 02/07/07 at 19:21:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	kylemeister wrote on 02/07/07 at 17:46:18: thibdb13 wrote on 02/07/07 at 09:40:17: I just wanted to know the point of view of players that are more specialized than me about this line: 1. d4-Nf6 2. c4-g6 3. Nc3-Bg7 4. e4-d6 5. f3-00 6. Be3-Nc6 7. Nge2-e5 8.d5-Nge7 (in place of the more usual Nd4) What should white now do? I am allways trying to push on the Q-side (with moves such as Qd2, ooo, Kb1, Rc1, c5,...) and my results are not bad (never lost to players at about 1800-2000 but also very few wins) but the database of chessgames.com gives g4 (or h4) with a very high percentage for white but with very few games. Where should I then go for K or Q-side attack? 8...Nd4 looks like it just hangs a pawn; maybe you meant 7. Qd2. 7...e5 looks dubious/premature, whereas it would be normal after say 7...a6 8. Nc1 (and if 9. d5 Nd4). After 8...Ne7 I would think White would look to the K-side, at least to begin with (9. Qd2 and 10. g4 perhaps). You are right, I forgot that Nd4 is just possible with the following move order: 7...-a6 8.Qd2-Rb8 9.Nc1-e5 10. d5-Nd4 where white must not take the pawn because of 11. Bd4-ed4 12.Qd4-Ne4 13. Qe4-Re8 (Chris Ward's bookis really interesting!!) But, more to the point, the conclusion would be that 7...-e5 comes too early and is dangerous for black when White starts a K-side attack without delay?

	Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4977 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Sämisch - Panno Blacks plays Ne7 Reply #1 - 02/07/07 at 17:46:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	thibdb13 wrote on 02/07/07 at 09:40:17: I just wanted to know the point of view of players that are more specialized than me about this line: 1. d4-Nf6 2. c4-g6 3. Nc3-Bg7 4. e4-d6 5. f3-00 6. Be3-Nc6 7. Nge2-e5 8.d5-Nge7 (in place of the more usual Nd4) What should white now do? I am allways trying to push on the Q-side (with moves such as Qd2, ooo, Kb1, Rc1, c5,...) and my results are not bad (never lost to players at about 1800-2000 but also very few wins) but the database of chessgames.com gives g4 (or h4) with a very high percentage for white but with very few games. Where should I then go for K or Q-side attack? 8...Nd4 looks like it just hangs a pawn; maybe you meant 7. Qd2. 7...e5 looks dubious/premature, whereas it would be normal after say 7...a6 8. Nc1 (and if 9. d5 Nd4). After 8...Ne7 I would think White would look to the K-side, at least to begin with (9. Qd2 and 10. g4 perhaps).
	« Last Edit: 02/07/07 at 19:14:01 by kylemeister »

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thibdb13 God Member Offline Tal was the best Posts: 974 Location: Mechelen Joined: 01/25/07 Gender:	Sämisch - Panno Blacks plays Ne7 02/07/07 at 09:40:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	I just wanted to know the point of view of players that are more specialized than me about this line: 1. d4-Nf6 2. c4-g6 3. Nc3-Bg7 4. e4-d6 5. f3-00 6. Be3-Nc6 7. Nge2-e5 8.d5-Nge7 (in place of the more usual Nd4) What should white now do? I am allways trying to push on the Q-side (with moves such as Qd2, ooo, Kb1, Rc1, c5,...) and my results are not bad (never lost to players at about 1800-2000 but also very few wins) but the database of chessgames.com gives g4 (or h4) with a very high percentage for white but with very few games. Where should I then go for K or Q-side attack?

	Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
	IP Logged

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