Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The current statut of the Traxler (Read 30091 times)
Dji
Full Member
***
Offline


Just a Spirit in this
material World

Posts: 169
Joined: 07/16/06
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #36 - 05/15/07 at 09:05:36
Post Tools
Quote:
.
One small question:
Did you consider answering 16.d3  with 16....Ng6 to avoid 17.Rf4 ?



No i've  missed this one, it's probably better but black still fight for the draw.

Otherwise  i've begun some researchs in the line 7.Ke3 Qh4 8.g3 Qe7 9.Ke4

 I've seen somewhere on the web that pierre Meinshon (a french FM) recommend  9...Rf8 but it's only a table of contents so i can't tell you more
« Last Edit: 05/15/07 at 10:51:50 by Dji »  

Eternity it's very long especially towards the end!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
micawber
God Member
*****
Offline


like many sneaks and skunks
in history he's a poet

Posts: 852
Location: Netherlands
Joined: 09/07/05
Gender: Male
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #35 - 05/14/07 at 19:19:00
Post Tools
Thx Dji

For sharing this game. I think youre probably right that 15...g5! is a strong move.
One small question:
Did you consider answering 16.d3  with 16....Ng6 to avoid 17.Rf4 ?

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dji
Full Member
***
Offline


Just a Spirit in this
material World

Posts: 169
Joined: 07/16/06
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #34 - 05/14/07 at 12:22:17
Post Tools
A recent game with the line 13.Bb3 play with the  very sympathique John
   Elburg,John- Dji   corr. Thematic Traxler 02/2006
   13.Bb3 Rf7 14.Qg1 Qe5 15.Nc3 Ne7!? my novelty but maybe christophe Nirav's 15...g5! is stronger
16.d3 ed3 17.Rf4! Bf5 18.Qe3! Qd6 19.g4 Bg6 20.Rf7 Bf7 21.Qd3 c6 22.Qg3 Qd7 23.Be3 Be6 24.Rf1 Bg4 25.Ne4 Qe6 26.Ng5 Nf5 27.Ne6 Ng3 28.Kg3 Be6 29.Re1 Kf7 30.c3 b6 31.Bc2 h6 32.Bd4 c5 33.Be5 Rd8 34.Rf1+ Kg8 35.Rf4 Rd7 36.Rf2  and in this unclear position we agreed a draw!
  

Eternity it's very long especially towards the end!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dji
Full Member
***
Offline


Just a Spirit in this
material World

Posts: 169
Joined: 07/16/06
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #33 - 04/29/07 at 21:42:41
Post Tools
Quote:
=============================================================
My own preference as black was for
7.Ke3,Qh4 8.g3.Nxg3 9.hxg3,Qd4+ 10.Kf3,d5 11.Rh4,e4+ 12.Kg2,0-0
although my personal opinion is that white is objectively a little better after
13. Bb3 (instead of 13.Nc3).



I 've play some correspondance's game against 13.Bb3 recently and i think this move is stronger than 13.Nc3 too.

I have a different opignon about the schmid attack (6.b4):After 6...Nb4 7.d4!? Bd4 8.c3 Bc5 withe can play more solid with 9.0-0 and things are not realy clear. Perso I prefer 6...Bxb4 because it's rules out the d4 idea!
  

Eternity it's very long especially towards the end!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
micawber
God Member
*****
Offline


like many sneaks and skunks
in history he's a poet

Posts: 852
Location: Netherlands
Joined: 09/07/05
Gender: Male
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #32 - 04/29/07 at 20:55:34
Post Tools
I think 6.b4 is not the most difficult reply to handle. My own preference is 6....Nxb4.
Now white has two reasonable answers:

variation I
7.Bb3 when 7....d5 should give black reasonable play:
8.0-0?!, Bg4! 9.Qe1,h6 10.Nf3,Bxf3 with a comfortable position for black

variation II (the original Schmidt-attack)
7.d4!?, Bxd4 8.c3, Bc5 9.cxb4, Bd4! 10.Bb3,Rf8 11.f4,d6 12.fxe5,Bxe5 13.Nf7,Rxf7 14.Bxf7, Bxa1
Black is somewhat better (Schmidt-Augustat, corr. 1981, 0-1 (29)).
This game is a fine example of precomputer correspondence play by both players.
=============================================================
On the variation
5.....Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2+,Nxe4+ 7.Ke3

7.Ke3, Qe7 8.Nxh8 (8.Kxe4 is refuted by d5+) ,d5 9.Qg6+ was considered a refutation I think.
I dont quit see how things would be improved by
7.Ke3, Qh4 8.g3,Qe7 , as after 9.Kxe4,d5+ 10.Bxd5 the attack with Qh4+ is no longer available.

My own preference as black was for
7.Ke3,Qh4 8.g3.Nxg3 9.hxg3,Qd4+ 10.Kf3,d5 11.Rh4,e4+ 12.Kg2,0-0
although my personal opinion is that white is objectively a little better after
13. Bb3 (instead of 13.Nc3).

I am interested if anything new has been found, as I played a number of correspondence TGT-tournaments with the traxler around 1998.



  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ArKheiN
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 718
Location: Belgium
Joined: 03/30/05
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #31 - 04/29/07 at 18:43:24
Post Tools
Estrin's Bxf2+ seems to be the most in the spirit of the Traxler here.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
photophore
Full Member
***
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 203
Location: Montesson
Joined: 09/25/04
Gender: Male
C57: Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #30 - 04/28/07 at 16:18:59
Post Tools
I think that after
5 Bxf7+ Ke7 Schmid's attack is unjustly neglected
My only experience with Traxler was in a ICCF Thematic , where I played 6 b4!?
All the authors prefer ?! , but they don't agree about  a refutation :
Bxb4 , Nxb4 , Bd4 , or Bxf2+ ( Estrin's choice and that of my opponent ) Which to choose ?
« Last Edit: 12/04/11 at 16:58:19 by Smyslov_Fan »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dji
Full Member
***
Offline


Just a Spirit in this
material World

Posts: 169
Joined: 07/16/06
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #29 - 04/26/07 at 17:49:41
Post Tools
In yearbook 56 martin Bennedik 've written  :' About 7...Qh4 8.g3 Qe7 I wonder what happens after 9.Ke4 ? '
« Last Edit: 04/27/07 at 11:24:58 by Dji »  

Eternity it's very long especially towards the end!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10519
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #28 - 04/25/07 at 20:21:24
Post Tools
Are you 100% sure?  Grin Do you have any idea, when he will update this stuff in part 13 of that excellent column Hard Chess?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #27 - 04/25/07 at 16:24:26
Post Tools
[quote author=Michael Ayton link=1174512176/15#25 date=1177456497][quote]I started playing 1...e5 just to play the traxler.[/quote]

Wow! That's faith (or enthusiasm)!

Forgive my ignorance (I know nothing of this theory, though I'm interested!), but I had thought that although NIC 55 'busted' 8 ...Ng3 with [9 hg Qd4 10 Kf3 d5 11 Rh4 e4 12 Kg2 0-0] 13 Nc3!?, NIC [i]56[/i] unbusted it with [13 ...dc 14 Qh5] Ne7!?. [/quote]

Yes, if I'm not mistaken, a certain Mark Morss contributed that analysis.  There is some further discussion in the next issue, I believe.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
condor
Junior Member
**
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 63
Location: Norwich
Joined: 08/13/05
Gender: Male
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #26 - 04/25/07 at 15:33:39
Post Tools
When I said just, I meant primarily. I find 1 e4 e5 more tactical. Up till then I had played the French, the first opening I had learnt without thinking critically about alternatives.

NIC 56 unbusting it is news to me. I only got NIC 55 from a correspondence player living nearby. Much as I love chess, I try to limit spending on it (a profit from tournaments is preferable). What is the status of NIC 56's improvement?

I dislike having to find best play for both sides; one is bad enough. If you have NIC 55, follow their 7...Qe7 for white and you should see how black can improve with W's Pg3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1857
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #25 - 04/24/07 at 23:14:57
Post Tools
[quote]I started playing 1...e5 just to play the traxler.[/quote]

Wow! That's faith (or enthusiasm)!

Forgive my ignorance (I know nothing of this theory, though I'm interested!), but I had thought that although NIC 55 'busted' 8 ...Ng3 with [9 hg Qd4 10 Kf3 d5 11 Rh4 e4 12 Kg2 0-0] 13 Nc3!?, NIC [i]56[/i] unbusted it with [13 ...dc 14 Qh5] Ne7!?. Or am I getting mixed up? I guess it's academic if 8 ...Qe7 is good for Black -- I'd love to know what you think best play might be after that.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
condor
Junior Member
**
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 63
Location: Norwich
Joined: 08/13/05
Gender: Male
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #24 - 04/24/07 at 18:04:44
Post Tools
New in Chess 55 busted 7 Ke3 Qh4 8 g3 Nxg3?! Black should play 8...Qe7!, an improved version of 7...Qe7 when black's bishop can slot in on Bh3; I think white is eventually theoretically lost.

I started playing 1...e5 just to play the traxler. I was looking through responses to Ng5 in BCO2 and came across 4...Bc5; it's arrogance and "your neglect of developement will be punished" attitude appealed to me. Playing it in tournaments and league matches is a total pleasure, particuarly to see the differing impressions on their faces as the game progresses.

5 Nxf7 Bxf2+ is the fun line. I actually think black is theoretically winning with best play. Bxf7+ is still exciting but in a different way. After 6 Bd5 play Rf8; NCO gives an unclear game. 6 Bb3 is the new move which actually seems worse. Play 6...d6 which immediatly threatens Bg4 & sets the trap of 7 Nxf7 Qf8. W's Q no longer has an escape route becasue of Bb3.

The only line that can spoil black's fun is 5 d4 when when white can bail out into an ending after 5...d5! 6 dxc5 dxc4 7 Qxd8+ Nxd8 although I think black should have a positional advantage.

The Traxler is a unique, once in a lifetime opening; nowhere else are material v time, developement & structure so sharply balanced. Play it when you get the opportunity.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dji
Full Member
***
Offline


Just a Spirit in this
material World

Posts: 169
Joined: 07/16/06
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #23 - 04/01/07 at 18:34:25
Post Tools
ArKheiN wrote on 03/31/07 at 14:37:11:
From the YB 55 we learnt that the pseudo refutation of the Traxler was 5.Nf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2 (Kf1! according to one of the article of YB63-68 is better for White but Dji say that in YB 70, Black has improved here)Nxe4+ 7.Ke3 and now 7..Qh4! 8.g3 Nxg3! 9.hxg3 Dd4+ 10.Kf3 d5! 11.Rh4 e4 12.Kg2 0-0 13.Nc3(the supposed refutation from YB55)13..dxc4 14.Qh5 Ne7! (The forgoten move that save Black, pointed out by a reader in YB56)
15.Nxe4 Bf5 16.Nfg5


A game, without any pretention,  to show there is plenty of life in this line  16...Qd5!? (instead of h6) 17.d3 cxd3 18.cxd3 h6 19.Nf3 Ng6 20.Rh1 Rad8 21.Bg5 Rd7 22.Rae1 Qxd3 23.Nc3 b5 24.a3 a5 25.Bc1 b4 26.axb4 axb4 27.Re3 Qc4 28.Ne2 Rd3 29.Ned4 Rxd4 30.Nxd4 Qxd4 31.Rhe1 Ne5 32.Qd1 Nd3 33.Rh2 Bg6 34.Rf1 Rxf1 35.Qxf1 Ne5 Qf4 Ng4+ 37.Kg1 Qd1+ 38.Qf1 Nxe3 39.Bxe3 Qd5 40.Qf4 c5 41.g4 Be4 42.Kf2 b3 43.g5 h5 44.Bd2 Qd4+ 45.Ke1 Bd3 46.Qxd4 cxd4 47.Bf4 Be4 48.Be5 d3 49.Bg3 Kf7 50.Kd2 Kg6 0-1 corr. Traxler Thematic tournemant 5.Nxf7 (SEMI) Rebaudo,Nino - Dji
  

Eternity it's very long especially towards the end!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1857
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: The current statut of the Traxler
Reply #22 - 03/31/07 at 14:49:27
Post Tools
Thanks very much ArKheiN! Anything on 5 d4?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo