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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack (Read 15298 times)
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #32 - 07/30/08 at 08:24:19
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Semko wrote on 08/10/07 at 15:28:07:
Why everybody is discussing 12. Qb6 Qxb6? What's the matter with "my" 12...Qe5?

At last we have a game with 12...Qe5, and even played by Delchev himself:

[Event "XIII Open"]
[Site "Balaguer ESP"]
[Date "2008.07.18"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Bruzon Batista, L."]
[Black "Delchev, A."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2592"]
[BlackElo "2618"]
[PlyCount "36"]
[EventDate "2008.07.14"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2008.07.28"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8. f3
Ne5 9. O-O-O Bb4 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Nc6 12. Qb6 Qe5 13. Bd2 Rb8 14. Qe3 O-O 15.
f4 Qc7 16. Bd3 d5 17. e5 Nd7 18. Qh3 g6 1/2-1/2

Not that illuminating a game, unfortunately, except for the fact that Delchev played 12...Qe5 instead of the thus far dominating 12...Qxb6. Khalifman says White is slightly better after 16.Bd3, but 16...d5 may come close to equality.

However, I wonder what Black's prospects are after 15.Be1!? (instead of 15.f4); the idea is to play 16.Bg3 and embarrass Black's queen on e5 and rook on b8. Undecided

15.Be1 is not on the top of Fritz' and Rybka's lists, but Deep Junior is quick to propose it as an alternative to 15.a3!? (another interesting move). If followed up a bit, 15.Be1 seems to lead to an advantage for White according to all three engines ...

So perhaps 14...Qc7 is slightly more accurate than 14...0-0, but who am I to tell?  

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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #31 - 09/17/07 at 18:29:02
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Quote:
The game Trkulja - Kurajica is in fact looked at by Khalifman in his book. Instead of 17.Nb1 he recommends 17.Na4 Nd7 18.h6 g6 19.Kb1 a5 20.Nd4! with a slight advantage for White.


I think that is lazy analysis (again) from Khalifman. 19...Rfc8 is clearly superior to a5.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #30 - 09/17/07 at 12:22:41
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JudgeDeath wrote on 09/14/07 at 01:24:35:
No-one has mentioned 11...Be7, which was the first response against Qd4 and has 100% record Grin.

[Event "BIH-chT"]
[Site "Bihac"]
[Date "1999.08.22"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Trkulja, Goran"]
[Black "Kurajica, Bojan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B33"]
[WhiteElo "2255"]
[BlackElo "2541"]
[PlyCount "74"]
[EventDate "1999.08.21"]
[EventType "team"]
[EventRounds "9"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Qb6 5. Nb3 Nf6 6. Nc3 e6 7. Be3 Qc7 8.
f3 a6 9. Qd2 b5 10. O-O-O Ne5 11. Qd4 Be7 12. Be2 O-O 13. g4 d6 14. h4 Bb7 15.
h5 Nc6 16. Qd2 b4 17. Nb1 Rac8 18. g5 Nd7 19. g6 fxg6 20. hxg6 hxg6 21. f4 a5
22. Rdg1 a4 23. Na1 a3 24. bxa3 Na5 25. Bd3 Rf6 26. Qh2 Nc5 27. Bxc5 Qxc5 28.
axb4 Qd4 29. Qh7+ Kf7 30. e5 Qxd3 31. exf6 Bxf6 32. Rh3 Qd4 33. Qxg6+ Ke7 34.
bxa5 Be4 35. f5 Qxa1 36. Rb3 Rxc2+ 37. Kd1 Qd4+ 0-1

[Event "Open NK"]
[Site "Dieren NED"]
[Date "2007.07.24"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Ootes, La"]
[Black "Op den Kelder, J."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2064"]
[BlackElo "2247"]
[PlyCount "60"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8.
O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Be7 12. Be2 O-O 13. Kb1 Rb8 14. g4 Nc4
15. Bxc4 bxc4 16. Nd2 d5 17. exd5 Nxd5 18. Nxd5 exd5 19. Bf4 Qb6 20. Qxb6 Rxb6
21. Be3 Re6 22. Bd4 f5 23. h3 fxg4 24. fxg4 Bg5 25. Bc5 Rf7 26. c3 h5 27. h4
Bf4 28. gxh5 Re2 29. Rhe1 Bf5+ 30. Kc1 Bxd2+ 0-1


Hmm, I posted the game Ootes - Op den Kelder some time ago ...  Roll Eyes

The game Trkulja - Kurajica is in fact looked at by Khalifman in his book. Instead of 17.Nb1 he recommends 17.Na4 Nd7 18.h6 g6 19.Kb1 a5 20.Nd4! with a slight advantage for White.

In both games White did not play the "thematic" Qb6; so we need some more examples, I suppose.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #29 - 09/14/07 at 01:24:35
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No-one has mentioned 11...Be7, which was the first response against Qd4 and has 100% record Grin.

[Event "BIH-chT"]
[Site "Bihac"]
[Date "1999.08.22"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Trkulja, Goran"]
[Black "Kurajica, Bojan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B33"]
[WhiteElo "2255"]
[BlackElo "2541"]
[PlyCount "74"]
[EventDate "1999.08.21"]
[EventType "team"]
[EventRounds "9"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Qb6 5. Nb3 Nf6 6. Nc3 e6 7. Be3 Qc7 8.
f3 a6 9. Qd2 b5 10. O-O-O Ne5 11. Qd4 Be7 12. Be2 O-O 13. g4 d6 14. h4 Bb7 15.
h5 Nc6 16. Qd2 b4 17. Nb1 Rac8 18. g5 Nd7 19. g6 fxg6 20. hxg6 hxg6 21. f4 a5
22. Rdg1 a4 23. Na1 a3 24. bxa3 Na5 25. Bd3 Rf6 26. Qh2 Nc5 27. Bxc5 Qxc5 28.
axb4 Qd4 29. Qh7+ Kf7 30. e5 Qxd3 31. exf6 Bxf6 32. Rh3 Qd4 33. Qxg6+ Ke7 34.
bxa5 Be4 35. f5 Qxa1 36. Rb3 Rxc2+ 37. Kd1 Qd4+ 0-1

[Event "Open NK"]
[Site "Dieren NED"]
[Date "2007.07.24"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Ootes, La"]
[Black "Op den Kelder, J."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2064"]
[BlackElo "2247"]
[PlyCount "60"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8.
O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Be7 12. Be2 O-O 13. Kb1 Rb8 14. g4 Nc4
15. Bxc4 bxc4 16. Nd2 d5 17. exd5 Nxd5 18. Nxd5 exd5 19. Bf4 Qb6 20. Qxb6 Rxb6
21. Be3 Re6 22. Bd4 f5 23. h3 fxg4 24. fxg4 Bg5 25. Bc5 Rf7 26. c3 h5 27. h4
Bf4 28. gxh5 Re2 29. Rhe1 Bf5+ 30. Kc1 Bxd2+ 0-1
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #28 - 09/11/07 at 07:21:25
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Semko wrote on 08/10/07 at 15:28:07:
Why everybody is discussing 12. Qb6 Qxb6? What's the matter with "my" 12...Qe5?

Good question. Here's the most recent example, taken from TWIC 670:

[Event "15th Open"]
[Site "Nikea GRE"]
[Date "2007.08.28"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Gharamian, T."]
[Black "Banikas, H."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2517"]
[BlackElo "2567"]
[PlyCount "107"]
[EventDate "2007.08.23"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.09.10"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8.
O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Nc6 12. Qb6 Qxb6 13. Bxb6 Bxc3 14. bxc3
d5 15. Bd3 dxe4 16. Bxe4 Nxe4 17. fxe4 O-O 18. Bc7 Ra7 19. Bd6 Re8 20. e5 f6
21. exf6 gxf6 22. Rhf1 Rf7 23. Bg3 Ne7 24. Nc5 Nf5 25. Bf2 h5 26. Rde1 Kh7 27.
h3 e5 28. g4 hxg4 29. hxg4 Nd6 30. g5 fxg5 31. Rh1+ Kg6 32. Be3 Rf3 33. Rhg1 g4
34. Nd3 Bf5 35. Bc5 Nc4 36. Bd4 Kf6 37. Nxe5 Nxe5 38. Rxe5 Rxe5 39. Re1 Kg5 40.
Rxe5 g3 41. a4 Rf1+ 42. Kb2 bxa4 43. Ra5 Rf2 44. Rxa4 Bxc2 45. Bxf2 gxf2 46.
Ra1 Bd3 47. Kb3 Kf4 48. c4 Ke4 49. Kc3 Be2 50. c5 Kd5 51. Kd2 Bb5 52. Ke3 f1=Q
53. Rxf1 Bxf1 54. Kd2 1/2-1/2
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #27 - 08/10/07 at 15:45:25
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Well, I know what the problem is with 12...Bd6. It's 13.a4, which is rather better than Khalifman's suggestion IMO.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #26 - 08/10/07 at 15:28:07
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Why everybody is discussing 12. Qb6 Qxb6? What's the matter with "my" 12...Qe5?
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #25 - 08/01/07 at 23:44:13
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This entire line is fascinating, and I tend to prefer Black (although I haven't done any serious work on it and certainly don't have anything new to add to the theory yet).  What makes me especially interested in this is that already this cutting edge line has become known by lower rated players!  I do love the information age.

This means that if I do spend time studying this line, it will probably pay off at some point!  I don't know where to improve for White except that I am still worried about early Qf2 lines for White.

BTW, I didn't know Khalifman was already up to volume 9 in this series!  How many is he planning on?
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #24 - 08/01/07 at 07:51:46
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Two more recent games with this variation, from The Week in Chess 664:  

[Event "MonRoi International Women GP"]
[Site "Montreal CAN"]
[Date "2007.07.24"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Houska, Jo"]
[Black "Cramling, P."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2401"]
[BlackElo "2533"]
[PlyCount "77"]
[EventDate "2007.07.22"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.07.30"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8.
O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Nc6 12. Qb6 Qxb6 13. Bxb6 d6 14. a4 bxa4
15. Nxa4 Bd7 16. Bf2 Na5 17. Nxa5 Bxa5 18. Nb6 Bxb6 19. Bxb6 Ke7 20. Ba5 e5 21.
Bb4 Ne8 22. Rd5 f6 23. Be2 Bc6 24. Rd2 a5 25. Ba3 Rd8 26. Rhd1 h5 27. b3 Rf8
28. Bc4 g5 29. Bd5 Rc8 30. Kb2 f5 31. Bc4 Rd8 32. exf5 Rxf5 33. Bc5 g4 34. fxg4
hxg4 35. Bb6 Ra8 36. Be2 Rg5 37. Bc4 Rf5 38. Be2 Rg5 39. Bc4
1/2-1/2


[Event "Open NK"]
[Site "Dieren NED"]
[Date "2007.07.24"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Ootes, La"]
[Black "Op den Kelder, J."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2064"]
[BlackElo "2247"]
[PlyCount "60"]
[EventDate "2007.07.24"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.07.30"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8.
O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Be7 12. Be2 O-O 13. Kb1 Rb8 14. g4 Nc4
15. Bxc4 bxc4 16. Nd2 d5 17. exd5 Nxd5 18. Nxd5 exd5 19. Bf4 Qb6 20. Qxb6 Rxb6
21. Be3 Re6 22. Bd4 f5 23. h3 fxg4 24. fxg4 Bg5 25. Bc5 Rf7 26. c3 h5 27. h4
Bf4 28. gxh5 Re2 29. Rhe1 Bf5+ 30. Kc1 Bxd2+
0-1
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #23 - 07/12/07 at 08:54:32
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Ptero wrote on 07/11/07 at 15:16:43:
Well, to me 19.e5 (instead of Fritz's 19.exd5 - maybe Fritz "wants" to open the position for the white bishops!?!) looks rather unpleasant for black, both after 19...Rfc8 20.Ba5 (preventing ...Ne8-Nc7, ...b4 ...Bb5 ideas) or 19...Ne8 20.Bb6.


Thank you for pointing this out. I guess I am guilty of doing some "quick and dirty analysis" here,
paying too much attention to the machine's principal variation, neither looking at it's second best option
nor really at the board …  Roll Eyes  Sorry!

In fact, if left alone, Fritz 8 keeps thinking that 19.exd5 is very slightly better than 19.e5 for quite some time.
Upon being "recommended" 19.e5, however, after a while it begins to appreciate the positive sides of this move.
But even then, having explored a few variations that might evolve after 19.e5, Fritz insists that Black remains
slightly better, with evaluations somewhere in the range from -0.10 to -0.20, but never getting close to 0.00 or
even rising to positive values.

More specifically, after 19.e5 Ne8 (19...Rfc8 20.Ba5 Ne8 with the idea 21...f6 is also fine for Black according
to the machine) 20.Bb6 Rc8, Fritz "wants" to follow up with 21...f6 after almost every legal 21. move by White
(with 21...Rxc3 being an option, too) and, if need be, assist it by a further ...g5 if White plays f4. After that,
depending on what White does, Black may redeploy his pieces with, e.g., ...Kf7 and ...Rg8.

Of course, all this may not mean much, and Rybka (or Khalifman, for that matter) may have other ideas.
Or one might think that, perhaps, the computer in general doesn't properly "understand" the disadvantages and
advantages of the white doubled c-pawns. But then, this is what Robin Smith has to say about the issue on page 33
in his book "Modern Chess Analysis" (Gambit, 2004):

"It is well known that certain pawn-structures are weak. Isolated pawns, doubled pawns,
backward pawns, numerous pawn islands, etc., are all known to be weak by almost every
club player ... and program. The trouble is, they aren't always weak. The key quality of
weak pawns that makes them weak is that they tend to be easy to attack and/or hard to defend.
Yet sometimes so-called weak pawns cannot be easily attacked and are easy to defend.
In such cases, "weak" pawns may instead turn out to be strong! Doubled pawns may allow
open files for one's rooks and/or control critical squares, or an isolated pawn might restrain
one's opponent, etc. And because pawn-structures tend to be fairly constant features of a position,
one might assume that such exceptions are again not handled well by programs. On the contrary.
Since compensation for weak pawns is frequently dynamic in nature, open files and diagonals for
quick attacks for example, while in the past programs had great difficulty with pawn-structures,
computer programs of today usually handle these exceptions very well."


He then proceeds to give some examples.

So, in the position in question, after 19.e5 it may come down to a matter of taste which side to prefer.
It would be interesting to hear what someone like Mikhail Gurevich had to say about this rather French-type position ... Undecided





  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #22 - 07/11/07 at 15:16:43
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Thanks for the game

I'll offer my 2c:

Quote:
(Fritz 8 suggests as “best play” something like 18. Nxd7 Bxd7 19.exd5 Nxd5 (19…exd5!?) 20. c4 bxc4 21. Bxc4 Rfc8 22. Rxd5 Rxc7, when Black should have no problems.)


position after 18...Bxd7

http://www.jinchess.com/chessboard/pos=r4rk1/2Bb1ppp/p3pn2/1p1p4/4P3/2P2P2/P1P1B...

Well, to me 19.e5 (instead of Fritz's 19.exd5 - maybe Fritz "wants" to open the position for the white bishops!?!) looks rather unpleasant for black, both after 19...Rfc8 20.Ba5 (preventing ...Ne8-Nc7, ...b4 ...Bb5 ideas) or 19...Ne8 20.Bb6.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #21 - 07/11/07 at 09:25:50
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Yet another game with this variation has been published in The Week in Chess 661.
It appears that Black has found an improvement on one of the lines given by Khalifman:

[Event "IM"]
[Site "Antwerp BEL"]
[Date "2007.07.02"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Van Beers, E."]
[Black "Ooms, A."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2359"]
[BlackElo "2222"]
[PlyCount "84"]
[EventDate "2007.06.30"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.07.09"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6
8. O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Nc6 12. Qb6 Qxb6 13. Bxb6 Bxc3
14. bxc3 d5 15. Be2 O-O 16. Nc5 Ne5
(?!, Khalifman)
(Khalifman’s main line runs 16... Re8 17. Bc7 Ra7 18. Bg3 Nh5
(or 18... dxe4 19. fxe4 e5 20. Rd6 Rc7 21. Rhd1 “and White reliably occupies the d-file” 21… Nb8 22. Bf2 Nfd7 23. R1d5 Nf6 24. Rd8 Rce7 25. R5d6 - Khalifman)
19. Bf2 Rc7 20. Rhe1 Ne7 21. exd5 Nxd5
(or 21... exd5 22. a4 bxa4 23. Nxa4 Nf4 24. Bf1 “and White's couple of bishops is totally dominant in that position” - Khalifman)
22. Bxb5 axb5 23. Rxd5 Nf4 24. Rg5 f6 25. Rg4 Nd5 26. c4 “and White remains with an extra pawn in that endgame”. - Khalifman)
17. Bc7 Ned7!? (This is what Fritz 8 would play.)
(Khalifman only gives 17... Nc4 18. Bxc4 bxc4 19. Be5 dxe4 20. Bxf6 gxf6 21. Nxe4 Kg7 22. Rd6 Bb7 23. Nc5 Rfb8 24. Rhd1 a5 25. Nd7 Rg8
(or 25... Rd8?! 26. R6d4 Rac8? 27. Rg4+ Kh8 28. Nxf6 +-) 26. R1d4! “with a clear advantage for White”.)
18. Nb3?!
(Fritz 8 suggests as “best play” something like 18. Nxd7 Bxd7 19.exd5 Nxd5 (19…exd5!?) 20. c4 bxc4 21. Bxc4 Rfc8 22. Rxd5 Rxc7, when Black should have no problems.)
18... dxe4 19. Bd6 Re8 20. fxe4 Bb7!? (Black looks clearly better now.)
21. e5 Ne4 22. Bf3 Bd5 23. Bxe4 Bxe4 24. Rd2 Rec8 25. Re1 Bg6 26. Bb4 Nb6
27. Na5 h6 28. Rd6 Nd5 29. Nc6 a5 30. Bxa5 Rxc6 31. Rxc6 Rxa5 32. Kb2 Ra8
33. Kb3 Kf8 34. c4?
(34. Re2) 34... Bxc2+! 35. Kxc2 Nb4+ 36. Kb3 Nxc6 37. cxb5 Nd4+
38. Kc4 Nxb5!?
(38... Nc2) 39. Kxb5 Rxa2 40. g3 Rxh2 41. Ra1 g5 42. Kc6 Rd2 0-1

After Khalifman’s line beginning with 17… Nc4, Black’s pawn structure ends up in a mess and White’s
isolated doubled pawns on the c-file are shielded from attack by the weak Black pawn on c4.

On the other hand, 17… Ned7 keeps Black’s pawn structure intact, and in the game, after a few
inaccuracies by White, it is actually White’s weak pawn structure on the queenside that ultimately
leads to his downfall.

Food for thought.    


  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #20 - 07/02/07 at 16:44:11
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11.Qd4 introduces a whole new branch in the theory. You cannot expect to get to the truth quickly. It will take years and many games. Khalifman's logic is clear and positionally very well grounded. As to the concrete moves - practice will show. I'm not especially frigthened from the idea, though. On the contrary, the mere fact that after a long work Khalifman was unable to find anything better, makes me optimistic.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #19 - 07/01/07 at 19:24:45
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I have analysed this in some depth - necessary as I'm playing this in a CC game. I'm not convinced by what Khalifman has written. Does White need to play f4 in this line? I looked at 13.Bd2 0-0 14.a3 Be7 15.g4 b4 16.axb4 Bxb4 17.Qe3 for instance.

Equally Khalifman prefers White in the 12...Bd6 line after 13.Qxc7 Bxc7 14.g4 0-0 15.Be2 d6 16.a3 Bb7 17.g5 Nd7 18.f4 Nb6 19.Rhf1. However in no way is 14...0-0 forced. Black can play h6 or d6 instead.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #18 - 06/30/07 at 15:39:27
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LeeRoth wrote on 06/30/07 at 14:57:26:
Ptero,

That makes sense to me, but is there really a way for Black to avoid the Queen exchange?  Undecided

After 12..Qe5 13.f4 Qb8 (is there anyplace else to go? 13..Qh5 14.Be2 looks better for White) 14.Qxb8 Rxb8.  Maybe Black's OK here, e.g., 15.e5 Bxc3 16.bxc3 Nd5 17.Bd2 f6 or 15.Bd3 Bxc3 16.bxc3 d6.  These are just quick impressions; I haven't yet looked at this much, but I'm not sure I see much else here.

What do you think?

LeeRoth


Well, after 13.f4 at least white has loosened e4 a little so black has at least something to aim at. I guess after 13.f4 Qb8 14.Qxb8 Rxa8 and, say, 15.Bd3 (not sure if white wants to play 15.e5 Bxc3 16.bxc3 Nd5), white is still more comfortable than black but things are not as grim as in the above mentioned games. Just my 2c.
BTW Khalifman doesn't mention 13.f4, suggesting 13.Bd2!? instead - vacating e3 for the Q in case of 13...Rb8
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #17 - 06/30/07 at 14:57:26
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Ptero,

That makes sense to me, but is there really a way for Black to avoid the Queen exchange?  Undecided

After 12..Qe5 13.f4 Qb8 (is there anyplace else to go? 13..Qh5 14.Be2 looks better for White) 14.Qxb8 Rxb8.  Maybe Black's OK here, e.g., 15.e5 Bxc3 16.bxc3 Nd5 17.Bd2 f6 or 15.Bd3 Bxc3 16.bxc3 d6.  These are just quick impressions; I haven't yet looked at this much, but I'm not sure I see much else here.

What do you think?

LeeRoth
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #16 - 06/30/07 at 12:36:26
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Pessoa wrote on 06/29/07 at 10:30:05:
Actually, two games have recently been played with this variation. While the first game was sort of OK for Black, the second one was not exactly a success:


[Event "V Regina Helena Marques Prol"]
[Site "Santos BRA"]
[Date "2007.05.21"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Hungaski, R."]
[Black "Tsuboi, E."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2379"]
[BlackElo "2356"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[EventDate "2007.05.19"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.05.28"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 e6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8.
O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Nc6 12. Qb6 Qxb6 13. Bxb6 O-O 14. a4
Bxc3 15. axb5 Bxb2+ 16. Kxb2 axb5 17. Bc5 Re8 18. Bxb5 Ba6 19. c4 Rec8 20. Ra1
Bb7 21. Bd6 Ne8 22. Bg3 d6 23. Rxa8 Rxa8 24. Rd1 e5 25. Bf2 Rb8 26. Kc3 Rc8 27.
Bb6 Kf8 28. Na1 Ke7 29. Nc2 Nc7 30. Bxc6 Bxc6 31. Bxc7 Rxc7 32. Ne3 g6 33. Ra1
h5 34. h4 Kd7 35. Ra6 Rc8 36. Ra7+ Rc7 37. Ra6 Rc8 38. Ra7+ Rc7 39. Rxc7+ Kxc7
40. Kb4 Kb6 41. Nd1 Bd7 42. Nc3 Be6 43. Nb5 Kc6 44. Na7+ Kb6 45. Nb5 1/2-1/2

(The Week in Chess 655)



[Event "TCh-ESP Honor Gp1"]
[Site "Lugo ESP"]
[Date "2007.06.22"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Alsina Leal, D."]
[Black "Bellon Lopez, JuM"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2428"]
[BlackElo "2425"]
[PlyCount "103"]
[EventDate "2007.06.20"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.06.25"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Qc7 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8.
O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Nc6 12. Qb6 Qxb6 13. Bxb6 Ke7 14. a4 d6
15. axb5 axb5 16. Nxb5 Bd7 17. c3 Ne5 18. cxb4 Bxb5 19. Bxb5 Rhc8+ 20. Kb1 Rab8
21. f4 Rxb6 22. fxe5 dxe5 23. Bd3 Rxb4 24. Nc1 Nxe4 25. Bxe4 Rxe4 26. Rhe1 Rxe1
27. Rxe1 f6 28. Na2 g5 29. Nc3 g4 30. Kc2 Rb8 31. Re4 h5 32. b4 f5 33. Rxe5 g3
34. hxg3 Kd6 35. Rb5 Rg8 36. Ne2 h4 37. gxh4 Rxg2 38. Kd3 Rh2 39. Rb6+ Ke5 40.
Nd4 Kd5 41. Nf3 Rb2 42. Ke3 Rb1 43. Rb8 Kd6 44. Rb5 Rd1 45. Rb6+ Kd5 46. Rb8
Rh1 47. Rd8+ Kc4 48. Rd6 e5 49. Nxe5+ Kxb4 50. Nf3 Kc5 51. Rd2 Kc6 52. Kf4 1-0

(The Week in Chess 659)


Thanks for posting these games.
They confirm what Semko said earlier, that a Q exchange is highly undesirable for black: the a6-b5 pawn duo is a fixed target for an eventual a4, while white's f3-e4 chain severely restricts black's counterplay.  White even has a better placed K in this endgame.
Khalifman himself suggests 12...Qe5 which indeed seems a better try.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #15 - 06/29/07 at 10:30:05
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Actually, two games have recently been played with this variation. While the first game was sort of OK for Black, the second one was not exactly a success:


[Event "V Regina Helena Marques Prol"]
[Site "Santos BRA"]
[Date "2007.05.21"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Hungaski, R."]
[Black "Tsuboi, E."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2379"]
[BlackElo "2356"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[EventDate "2007.05.19"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.05.28"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 e6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8.
O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Nc6 12. Qb6 Qxb6 13. Bxb6 O-O 14. a4
Bxc3 15. axb5 Bxb2+ 16. Kxb2 axb5 17. Bc5 Re8 18. Bxb5 Ba6 19. c4 Rec8 20. Ra1
Bb7 21. Bd6 Ne8 22. Bg3 d6 23. Rxa8 Rxa8 24. Rd1 e5 25. Bf2 Rb8 26. Kc3 Rc8 27.
Bb6 Kf8 28. Na1 Ke7 29. Nc2 Nc7 30. Bxc6 Bxc6 31. Bxc7 Rxc7 32. Ne3 g6 33. Ra1
h5 34. h4 Kd7 35. Ra6 Rc8 36. Ra7+ Rc7 37. Ra6 Rc8 38. Ra7+ Rc7 39. Rxc7+ Kxc7
40. Kb4 Kb6 41. Nd1 Bd7 42. Nc3 Be6 43. Nb5 Kc6 44. Na7+ Kb6 45. Nb5 1/2-1/2

(The Week in Chess 655)



[Event "TCh-ESP Honor Gp1"]
[Site "Lugo ESP"]
[Date "2007.06.22"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Alsina Leal, D."]
[Black "Bellon Lopez, JuM"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B48"]
[WhiteElo "2428"]
[BlackElo "2425"]
[PlyCount "103"]
[EventDate "2007.06.20"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2007.06.25"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Qc7 5. Nc3 e6 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8.
O-O-O Bb4 9. f3 Ne5 10. Nb3 b5 11. Qd4 Nc6 12. Qb6 Qxb6 13. Bxb6 Ke7 14. a4 d6
15. axb5 axb5 16. Nxb5 Bd7 17. c3 Ne5 18. cxb4 Bxb5 19. Bxb5 Rhc8+ 20. Kb1 Rab8
21. f4 Rxb6 22. fxe5 dxe5 23. Bd3 Rxb4 24. Nc1 Nxe4 25. Bxe4 Rxe4 26. Rhe1 Rxe1
27. Rxe1 f6 28. Na2 g5 29. Nc3 g4 30. Kc2 Rb8 31. Re4 h5 32. b4 f5 33. Rxe5 g3
34. hxg3 Kd6 35. Rb5 Rg8 36. Ne2 h4 37. gxh4 Rxg2 38. Kd3 Rh2 39. Rb6+ Ke5 40.
Nd4 Kd5 41. Nf3 Rb2 42. Ke3 Rb1 43. Rb8 Kd6 44. Rb5 Rd1 45. Rb6+ Kd5 46. Rb8
Rh1 47. Rd8+ Kc4 48. Rd6 e5 49. Nxe5+ Kxb4 50. Nf3 Kc5 51. Rd2 Kc6 52. Kf4 1-0

(The Week in Chess 659)
« Last Edit: 06/29/07 at 11:35:53 by Pessoa »  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #14 - 05/29/07 at 12:51:51
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Black certainly should avoid swapping queens. I think that he is OK, but not in an endgame.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #13 - 05/29/07 at 07:15:08
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JudgeDeath wrote on 04/03/07 at 07:47:48:
Au contraire. After 15...Rb8 Black stands better if anything.

15...Rb8 does look good.

Bonsai wrote on 04/03/07 at 07:07:24:
JudgeDeath wrote on 04/02/07 at 19:01:26:
11.Qd4 Nc6 12.Qb6 Bd6 seems satisfactory to me.

I suppose that 13.Qxc7 Bxc7 14.Bc5 Bb7 followed by ...0-0-0 looks bearable for black, but something like 13.Na5 Qxb6 14.Bxb6 Bf4+ 15.Kb1 Nxa5 16.Bxa5 has to be a bit better for white (next we can start thinking of a2-a4 etc.), right?

I've now seen, that Khalifman does actually recommend 13.Qxc7 Bxc7, but doesn't continue with 14.Bc5. However I am not sure whether I agree with him that white is really a little bit better after the alternative he suggests. Well, I suppose he's rated over 400 Elo higher than me for a reason, but at least at my level I'd happily play this variation (I suppose on either side, really, the position is interesting enough).

Interestingly enough 12...Bd6 is just featured under the section beginning with "I will mentioned here that the other moves lead to an edge for white" (Khalifman).

As far as I can see (TWIC + Chessbase database), nobody has ventured 11.Qd4, yet (well, not in a tournament the games of which got published), so maybe that says something and this suggestion of Khalifman will not have as enthusiastic a following as e.g. his anti-Grünfeld variation.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #12 - 04/03/07 at 07:47:48
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Bonsai wrote on 04/03/07 at 07:07:24:
I suppose that 13.Qxc7 Bxc7 14.Bc5 Bb7 followed by ...0-0-0 looks bearable for black, but something like 13.Na5 Qxb6 14.Bxb6 Bf4+ 15.Kb1 Nxa5 16.Bxa5 has to be a bit better for white (next we can start thinking of a2-a4 etc.), right?


Au contraire. After 15...Rb8 Black stands better if anything.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #11 - 04/03/07 at 07:07:24
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JudgeDeath wrote on 04/02/07 at 19:01:26:
11.Qd4 Nc6 12.Qb6 Bd6 seems satisfactory to me.

I suppose that 13.Qxc7 Bxc7 14.Bc5 Bb7 followed by ...0-0-0 looks bearable for black, but something like 13.Na5 Qxb6 14.Bxb6 Bf4+ 15.Kb1 Nxa5 16.Bxa5 has to be a bit better for white (next we can start thinking of a2-a4 etc.), right?
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #10 - 04/02/07 at 19:01:26
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11.Qd4 Nc6 12.Qb6 Bd6 seems satisfactory to me.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #9 - 04/02/07 at 12:45:46
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Hello,

I think it leads to the same endgame as after 11Qe1 i.e 12.QxB QxQ 13.pxQ again the two bishops worth more than damaged pawn structure.

Bye John S
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #8 - 04/02/07 at 12:18:44
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Why not 11. ...Bb4xNc3
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #7 - 04/02/07 at 09:05:44
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Hello,

After, 11...Be7 12.Qb6 QxQ 13 BxQ black is going to be a temp down, compared with the Campora game, which makes what was played there unplayable for a start. If white can exchange bishops with Bc5, BxB, Nxc5 will lead to type of endgame that Leko has won.

The other alternative is 11 ...Nc6 12 Qb6 QxQ 13 BxQ then maybe 13 ... BxN although the two bishops always seem to be worth more, in this type of position. So I find 11Qd4 quite a unphleasant option for white compare to other tries which lead to murky positions that are often the best form of equality for black in practise.
                 Can't say I'm too worried though because at my level this whole line does not occur much.

Bye John S

  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #6 - 04/01/07 at 22:24:07
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Black seems to be having plenty of problems with 11.Qf2 in this line, so I don't see how it compares with Nunn in "Beating the Sicilian".
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #5 - 04/01/07 at 20:08:24
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Bonsai wrote on 04/01/07 at 09:49:33:
According to the information provided by Chess Stars publishing Vol.9 is suggesting the English Attack versus the Taimanov and apparently one of the major suggestions is in the variation 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e6 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be3 a6 7.Qd2 Nf6 8.0-0-0 Bb4 9.f3 Ne5 10.Nb3 b5, namely the move 11.Qd4!?.
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.php?fen=rxbxkxxr%2Fxxqpxppp%2Fpx...
I have not found a single game in this variation in the databases, but is looks quite interesting. Since I don't have the book, yet, I am wondering whether anyone has any comments.


This seems odd to me too.  I guess we'll have to wait to see the book, when all will be revealed.  Maybe Khalifman picked 11.Qd4 because he couldn't find anything in the known lines; I seem to recall that Nunn had the same problem in Beating the Sicilian.  

The Qd4 idea is known in a similar line.  1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 Qc7 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 Nf6 8. f3 Ne5 9. Nb3 b5 10. Qd4 Be7 11. Qb6 Qxb6 12. Bxb6 was played in Campora-Teran Alvarez, Benasque 1999. But this position is thought to lead, at best, to only a minimal advantage for White.  

LeeRoth
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #4 - 04/01/07 at 20:00:59
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I found a 1997 computer game between Comet and Junior on P90s that featured 11.Qd4. Black won in 68.  Grin
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #3 - 04/01/07 at 19:37:59
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JEH wrote on 04/01/07 at 13:09:51:
Can you point me to where did you got this info?

For the table of contents http://www.chess-stars.com and for the some more details the entry for the book at https://www.schachversand.de/startneu.htm.

notyetagm, the position after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e6 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be3 a6 7.Qd2 Nf6 8.0-0-0 Bb4 9.f3 Ne5 10.Nb3 b5 is quite well-known, but the main tries for white so far have been Kb1, Qf2, Qe1 and Bd4.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #2 - 04/01/07 at 16:19:30
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Bonsai wrote on 04/01/07 at 09:49:33:
According to the information provided by Chess Stars publishing Vol.9 is suggesting the English Attack versus the Taimanov ...


When can you not play the English Attack? That almost seems like a better question. You can play the English Attack against the Najdorf, Scheveningen, and now apparently also the Taimanov.
  
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Re: Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
Reply #1 - 04/01/07 at 13:09:51
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Bonsai wrote on 04/01/07 at 09:49:33:
According to the information provided by Chess Stars publishing Vol.9 is suggesting the English Attack versus the Taimanov and apparently one of the major suggestions is in the variation 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e6 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be3 a6 7.Qd2 Nf6 8.0-0-0 Bb4 9.f3 Ne5 10.Nb3 b5, namely the move 11.Qd4!?.


Can you point me to where did you got this info?
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Anand Vol.9 - suggestion in Engl. attack
04/01/07 at 09:49:33
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According to the information provided by Chess Stars publishing Vol.9 is suggesting the English Attack versus the Taimanov and apparently one of the major suggestions is in the variation 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e6 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be3 a6 7.Qd2 Nf6 8.0-0-0 Bb4 9.f3 Ne5 10.Nb3 b5, namely the move 11.Qd4!?.
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rxbxkxxr%2Fxxqpxppp%2Fpxx...
I have not found a single game in this variation in the databases, but is looks quite interesting. Since I don't have the book, yet, I am wondering whether anyone has any comments.
  
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