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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ...h6 (Read 7537 times)
JEH
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #18 - 04/30/07 at 19:18:08
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sssthepro wrote on 04/30/07 at 00:13:32:
Can you show some variations? I dont see anything...

THanks


Keep looking, it'll be good for your chess  Smiley. There is an unsubtle forcing line after 21. ...d5 22. f4 and I've already given you a clue.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #17 - 04/30/07 at 00:13:32
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Can you show some variations? I dont see anything...

THanks
  
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #16 - 04/27/07 at 18:00:35
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I noticed that (Dutch GM) Hans Ree, annotating this game in his newspaper column, does point out 22. Nxe6, commenting that Timman had a guardian angel.  He also doesn't like 20. b3.
  
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JEH
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #15 - 04/27/07 at 17:42:58
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sssthepro wrote on 04/27/07 at 11:44:04:
after 21...d5, Can White play f4?


That's refuted tactically due to that horrible 20. b3
  

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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #14 - 04/27/07 at 11:44:04
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after 21...d5, Can White play f4?
  
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JEH
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #13 - 04/22/07 at 13:29:34
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sssthepro wrote on 04/21/07 at 02:18:37:
Hmm, I guess 21...Nd7 is wrong, because that allows Nxe6. However, what should Black play here then?


21. ...d5 is thematic if it holds up tactically (Fritz seems happy with it)
  

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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #12 - 04/21/07 at 02:18:37
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Hmm, I guess 21...Nd7 is wrong, because that allows Nxe6. However, what should Black play here then?
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #11 - 04/20/07 at 17:36:04
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JEH wrote on 04/18/07 at 20:47:05:
kylemeister wrote on 04/18/07 at 19:46:08:
Well, today Timman played both ...h6 and ...Bd7 in the Pseudo-English Attack ...


I like White here, although maybe I'm biased being a recent English Attack convert.
20. b3 looks wrong to my positional eye. I thought that undeveloped Bf1's job is to chop stuff on c4.
To my tactical eye, there's 22. Nxe6 with a nasty fork on d4.




Indeed, what could Timman have intended on 22. Nxe6?  I notice that GM Stellan Brynell, in brief comments to the game, doesn't mention it.
  
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #10 - 04/19/07 at 09:45:39
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Thank you for the comments.
  
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #9 - 04/18/07 at 21:25:04
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J-dog wrote on 04/18/07 at 20:33:50:
Quote:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.0-0-0 h6 9.Be3 Be7 10.f3!?



I was initially skeptical about black's setup here with h6, followed by Nxd4 and queenside counterplay...but after messing around with Fritz in these positions, I have to admit that it looks pretty interesting! However, after 10...Nxd4 11.Bxd4 b5 black must either be prepared to lose a pawn or wreck his k-side pawns: 12.Bxf6 Bxf6 13.Qxd6 Qxd6 14.Rxd6 or 12.Bxf6 gxf6. (I'd go for the latter...I think this is called the Rauzer structure?). I wouldn't mind playing black after 10.f3 but I would be stupid if I didn't realize that it was dangerous!


Yes, that's a known "mechanism" for reaching a Rauzer structure, but generally there White would be playing f4 rather than f3 (so 12. Bxf6 looks out of place here). 
  
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #8 - 04/18/07 at 20:47:05
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kylemeister wrote on 04/18/07 at 19:46:08:
Well, today Timman played both ...h6 and ...Bd7 in the Pseudo-English Attack ...


I like White here, although maybe I'm biased being a recent English Attack convert.
20. b3 looks wrong to my positional eye. I thought that undeveloped Bf1's job is to chop stuff on c4.
To my tactical eye, there's 22. Nxe6 with a nasty fork on d4.


  

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Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #7 - 04/18/07 at 20:33:50
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Quote:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.0-0-0 h6 9.Be3 Be7 10.f3!?



I was initially skeptical about black's setup here with h6, followed by Nxd4 and queenside counterplay...but after messing around with Fritz in these positions, I have to admit that it looks pretty interesting! However, after 10...Nxd4 11.Bxd4 b5 black must either be prepared to lose a pawn or wreck his k-side pawns: 12.Bxf6 Bxf6 13.Qxd6 Qxd6 14.Rxd6 or 12.Bxf6 gxf6. (I'd go for the latter...I think this is called the Rauzer structure?). I wouldn't mind playing black after 10.f3 but I would be stupid if I didn't realize that it was dangerous!
  
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #6 - 04/18/07 at 19:46:08
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Well, today Timman played both ...h6 and ...Bd7 in the Pseudo-English Attack ...

[Event "15th Sigeman & Co"]
[Site "Malmo SWE"]
[Date "2007.04.18"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Hermansson,E"]
[Black "Timman,J"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2475"]
[BlackElo "2545"]
[EventDate "2007.04.18"]
[ECO "B80"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8.
O-O-O h6 9. Be3 Be7 10. f3 Bd7 11. g4 b5 12. Nxc6 Bxc6 13. Rg1 Nd7 14. Ne2
Rc8 15. Nd4 Bb7 16. Kb1 Qc7 17. h4 Ne5 18. g5 hxg5 19. hxg5 g6 20. b3 Qc3
21. Qe2 Nd7 22. Nxb5 Qb4 23. Na7 Ra8 24. Rd4 Qb6 25. e5 Nc5 26. exd6 Bxd6
27. Nb5 axb5 28. Qxb5+ Qxb5 29. Bxb5+ Ke7 30. Rgd1 Bd5 31. c4 Rhb8 32. Bc6
Nxb3 33. axb3 Bxc6 34. Rxd6 Rxb3+ 35. Kc2 Ba4 36. Rd7+ Ke8 0-1
  
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #5 - 04/18/07 at 09:00:02
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I dont see how White is superior if the N is on c6. If it is that bad, I can always exchange it for d4, then start an attack down the c-file, or b5, or something. It looks okay. Any comments?
  
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #4 - 04/17/07 at 22:33:18
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It also reminds me of Anand, I believe, playing an early Bg5-e3 (plus f3 etc.) against Timman in a Richter-Rauzer a couple of years ago without even being kicked by ...h6, and going on to win a nice game.  I believe it was the line with 7...a6 and 8...Bd7.  Anand seemed to be arguing (by his play) that the bishop was misplaced on d7 in such an "English" position (when Black plays ...Nc6 in the actual English attack he certainly doesn't generally put the bishop there), and that that factor at least balanced White's lost tempo.  But is that really true, and is ...h6 better to have as an extra tempo than ...Bd7?  I certainly don't profess to know.  

   
  
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #3 - 04/17/07 at 21:30:49
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Compare eg Nielsen-Mateo, Olympiad 2004 with Lanka-Panchenko, Gausdal 1991. Via the Richter Rauser White is a full tempo down. Now it may of course be possible, that against the English Attack the setup with a6, h6 and Nc6 is so bad, that even an extra tempo does not help.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #2 - 04/17/07 at 16:51:17
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Well, presumably there is some value in enabling the knight to stay on the centrally-oriented f6 square longer, which must be weighed against White's eventual g5 having a line-opening effect.  It puts me in mind of the Keres Attack, where it seems 6...h6 is generally agreed to be best (and where Black hasn't and usually doesn't play Nbd7) ...  
« Last Edit: 04/17/07 at 19:40:00 by kylemeister »  
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Re: Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ..
Reply #1 - 04/17/07 at 14:46:39
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Hello,

Knowing nothing about the line for either colour, can state would prefer to have pawn on h7. If there was Nb-d7, or some other reason why having Nf6 pushed around would be uncomfortable, then could see point in h6. In position interested in, can't see any advantages in having pawn on h6.

Bye John S
  
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Sicilian Classical Ricther Rauzer ...e6 and ...h6
04/17/07 at 09:19:54
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1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.0-0-0 h6 9.Be3 Be7 10.f3!?

I have been experiencing this fairly recently nowadays. I once asked about this and people said that this transposes to an unfavourable english attack for white because black is a tempo up with ...h6. However, doesn't h6 constitutes a weakness? I also had a check on the database and found that a lot of players play this. I found quite a load of games. Can someone tell me how this should be played against? Thanks
  
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