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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :( (Read 7713 times)
shalgo
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #14 - 02/27/08 at 23:53:09
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kylemeister wrote on 04/20/07 at 17:29:28:
It's not in the latest edition of ECO (2004).  That's odd, since I recall 14. a5 being considered an improvement on 14. Ne5, which was played in another [I believe earlier] Gligoric-Portisch 1971 game (that one is mentioned by ECO).

Updating:  I see that an earlier edition of the aforementioned red book thinks that 14. a5 should lead to a slight advantage for Black, after 14...ba 15. Ne5 (or 15. Ne4 Bd7 16. Ne5 Bb5 Gligoric-Portisch [yet again] 1978) Bb7 16. Ne4 Rc8 17. Ra3 f5 (Browne-Portisch '78) ...


In I Play Against Pieces, Gligoric annotates the 1971 game against Portisch in which he first played 14.a5.  I don't know when he wrote the annotations (some of the annotations in the book seem new, while others were clearly done at an earlier date), but he still gives 14.a5 an exclamation mark.  He also mentions his game with Portisch from 1978 (so the annotations were at least done after that game), about which he says "unable to remember the exact course of our previous encounter and being in poor form at that time, instead of 15.Ne5, I made a mistake with 15.Ne4 and, after 15...Bd7 16.Ne5 Bb5! 17.Qh5 f5, landed in an inferior position."  He doesn't mention the Browne-Portisch game or suggest a line after 15.Ne4, but apparently still believed that 14.a5 was strong.
  
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MarinFan
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #13 - 06/05/07 at 12:49:12
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Hello,

Another line that isn't covered is

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.c4 dxc4 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.0-0 a6 7.Bd3 Nbd7 8.Qe2 b6 9e4
This is a bit unfair because doesn't seem to have been played at all, maybe because
after 9... pxp 10. e5 Nd5 11. Nxd4 Nc5 compared to the similar 8.Re1 the bishop can't pop back to f1.
   However after 12 Bc2 Nb4 13 Rd1 Qc7 doesn't 14 Qc4 BxN 16 QxB cause some tactical problems?
(13... NxB 14 QxB Nd7 does not look so good either).
             So looks like black should wait with 12... Bb7 13. Nc3 Nb4 but then white can play Bb1.
Think missing something obvious here, would be interested what people think though.

Bye John S
  
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #12 - 04/30/07 at 14:15:57
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Hello,
This is the only game with 15...Kf8 in the online DB, mind you only four with whole sac line, so don't think it is going to be the most common line you will have to face...

[Event "SVE-ch35 corr"]
[Site "Sweden"]
[Date "1975.??.??"]
[Round "0"]
[White "Krantz,Kjell Erik"]
[Black "Hjorth,Sune"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "D29"]
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bxc4 c5 6.0-0 a6 7.Qe2 b5 8.Bb3 Bb7
9.Rd1 Nbd7 10.Nc3 Qc7 11.e4 cxd4 12.Nd5 exd5 13.exd5+ Be7 14.Bg5 Kf8 15.Rac1 Qb6 16.Nxd4 Re8
17.Nf5 Bc5 18.Qf3 h6 19.Bh4 g6 20.Ne3 Kg7 21.Rc3 Re4 22.Bxf6+ Nxf6 23.Rdc1 Bd4 24.Rc7 Rhe8
25.Kf1 Rxe3 26.fxe3 Rxe3 27.Qf4 Re4 28.Qf3 Qd6 29.g3 Bxd5 0-1

Jonathan Penrose played Qc7 a lot in correspodence, so should be a good enough line, but would prefer Qb8 myself.

Bye John S
  
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Semko
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #11 - 04/27/07 at 21:04:58
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Sorry, Dzambus, but this variation is too off-topic these days to spend time on it. Black is doing fine after 11...Qb8! or 11...Qb6. As to the sac on d5, I only know the recommendation 15...Kf8. Unfortunately I missed the chance to ask Efim Petrovich himself about this sac. I played him twice, but he chose 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6?! to lose nicely for the Informator.
The game you mention ran:
[White "Geller, Efim P"]
[Black "Fuderer, Andrija"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. e3 a6 6. Bd3 Nbd7 7. O-O dxc4 8. Bxc4
b5 9. Bb3 c5 10. Qe2 Bb7 11. Rd1 Qc7 12. e4 cxd4 13. Nd5 exd5 14. exd5+ Be7 15.
Bg5; 15... Kf8 !?
  
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Dzambus
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #10 - 04/27/07 at 08:31:02
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Semko wrote on 04/26/07 at 21:17:45:
I'm working now on the third edition of the QGA .



Can I find piece sacrifice Nd5 in Qc7 QGA main line, from Geller-Fuderer Goteborg izt 1955, analyzed in your book? It is not in Rizzitano Sad
  
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #9 - 04/26/07 at 22:18:31
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@ Semkov -

Interesting news, a third edition of your QGA book. I'll wait to buy this one Smiley

I look forward to seeing how Black is coping in certain lines you have kindly discussed elsewhere here, namely in the post below.  Thanks!

Semkov wrote on 10/23/05 at 06:03:17:
There were some important topics about QGA problems, so I decided to cover them in a separate thread.
1. The game
Beliavsky,A (2599) - Sermek,D (2532) [D20]
XVI Vidmar Mem Portoroz SLO (1), 09.07.2005
does not change my overall evaluation of the 5...Nc6 line as being slightly better for White. Still I prefer 12.b3 or 12.Qd3 0-0 13.h3.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e4 e5 4.Nf3 exd4 5.Bxc4 Nc6 6.0-0 Be6 7.Bxe6 fxe6 8.Qb3 Qd7 9.Qxb7 Rb8 10.Qa6 Nf6 11.Nbd2 Bd6 12.a3 0-0 13.b4
    This is an ambitious plan. If it works tactically, White will be clearly better. It seems that 13...Ng4 14.Bb2 Nce5 15.h3 is in White's favour, so Sermek's decision to change plans looks consistent. White has committed himself with b4, so Black can obtain counterplay with a5.

13...e5 14.Ne1 Rb6 (preparing a5) 15.Qe2
     White's plan is clear now. He wants to block the d4-pawn by knight.

15...Qe6 (I'd think about 15...Rbb8 intending a5) 16.Nc4 Rbb8 17.Bd2 Nd7
  Critical is 17...d3!? At least this is the way to exploit the absence of the queen from d3. The sacrifice of the d-pawn (often on d4) is a typical resource in that line. 18.Qxd3 Rbd8 19.Nf3 Bxb4 20.Qc2 Bxd2 21. Ncxd2 Nh5 with unclear position.

2. In the 7.Bb3 system the most testing answer is 7...b5.
The IQP positions may be playable and complex, but Black is unable to reach them if the opponent does not comply! For instance 7...Nc6 8.Qe2!? and I do not see how to get tangled play.

3. For those that are looking for a killer system against the QGA, 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 is a good field to investigate. It is far from comfortable for Black and still unclear.
Semkov
  
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Semko
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #8 - 04/26/07 at 21:17:45
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I'm working now on the third edition of the QGA (time for an update!) and I can say that  1.d4 d5 2.c4 dc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 a6 is in perfect health in more than one main line.  7...e6 8.ab5 Nb6 does not even require much learning, while 8...Bb4!? is more demanding. Even 7...Bb7!? stands firm. On the contrary, 4...Nc6 is objectively worse. In my opinion this  line is not covered well in the Morozevich book. It only raised new questions before me.
  
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #7 - 04/23/07 at 20:39:53
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Hello,

I don't know much about those possibilites, other than Morozevich has played the position after Nc6 alot, and it is covered in his book according to the thread about it.

Bye John S
  
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #6 - 04/23/07 at 17:32:48
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MarinFan wrote on 04/23/07 at 09:18:59:
Hello,

I think that in the whole line with 4 ...a6, black as to play very accurately.


I agree. I know about  possibilities (after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 d:c4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3) 4...Nc6 - transposition to Chigorin Defence - do you know current theoretical verdict in that line? I played Chigorin as Black a little, but never this line.

And 4...c5 - what about that one? In which  books can I find analyses of it?
  
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #5 - 04/23/07 at 09:18:59
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Hello,

I think that in the whole line with 4 ...a6, black as to play very accurately. So useful, to known something outside QGA, myself have looked at the Slav. Inn2 and Mnb have discussed some interesting stuff in the Geller gambit in another thread. Whilst against the main-line, can try to sneak back to QGA with 4... c6 5.a4 e6.
      Also playing in slav style can get an equal game more easily against some of the QP games, compared to what is recommended.

Bye John S
  
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #4 - 04/21/07 at 20:39:08
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That is quite a serious omission, as 7.Ng5 was the line the originator of the whole gambit, Bogoljubow, actually played. Probably safest is 7...Nxc3 8.bxc3 (8.Qf3 Qd5 9.Qxc3 Nc6 10.Be3 e6 11.a3 Be7 12.Be2 - the idea of White's play - b4!?) f6 9.Qf3 c6 10.Ne4 Qd5 11.Be2 fxe5.
  
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #3 - 04/21/07 at 17:58:43
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MarinFan wrote on 04/21/07 at 10:09:51:
Hello,

Yes can't complain too much that he ddn't include that one, does not even look like a problem.


But there is another one missing:

1)d4 d5
2)c4 d:c4
3)Nf3 Nf6
4)Nc3 a6
5)e4 b5
6)e5 Nd5

now 7.Ng5?! - maybe  cheap trap, but also not in Rizzitano book, he is only analysing 7.a4


I am a little dissapointed with this book , it has great reviews, but now i see far from complete repertoire Sad
  
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #2 - 04/21/07 at 10:09:51
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Hello,

Yes can't complain too much that he ddn't include that one, does not even look like a problem. Rook is not going do much swinging from a5, and a6 pawn is defended. In the first game, bd7 is not so good because if ne5,bb5 after nxb , ra3 is going to be a problem for black. Otherwise, white squared bishop is going to get exchanged, and a6 weak, or black would have too waste too much time with bc8.

Bye John S
  
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Re: QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
Reply #1 - 04/20/07 at 17:29:28
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It's not in the latest edition of ECO (2004).  That's odd, since I recall 14. a5 being considered an improvement on 14. Ne5, which was played in another [I believe earlier] Gligoric-Portisch 1971 game (that one is mentioned by ECO).

Updating:  I see that an earlier edition of the aforementioned red book thinks that 14. a5 should lead to a slight advantage for Black, after 14...ba 15. Ne5 (or 15. Ne4 Bd7 16. Ne5 Bb5 Gligoric-Portisch [yet again] 1978) Bb7 16. Ne4 Rc8 17. Ra3 f5 (Browne-Portisch '78) ...
  
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QGA - Line is not in "How to Beat d4" :(
04/20/07 at 12:17:07
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Hi, I have a question

Gligoric-Portisch 1-0 1971 QGA line 14.a5!?  is not in Rizzitano book Sad
What should Black play now?
  
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