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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) transpose french exchange to center counter? (Read 26042 times)
RdC
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #48 - 02/17/13 at 11:34:50
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tony37 wrote on 02/16/13 at 23:52:14:
out of curiosity I made a list of all variations with Nimzowitsch's name attached to it, sometimes shared with others:


Someone, not being totally serious, once suggested that if you were writing a chess book and couldn't be bothered to do any historic research on the chosen variations, just attribute them to Nimzo. You had reasonable chances of being believed.
  
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #47 - 02/16/13 at 23:52:14
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TalJechin wrote on 05/16/07 at 12:05:42:
I still think Aaaron N is the man even if you only count the number of variations - still atm I can only come with the following (though he may have even more variations in the french) and couldn't the QI also reasonably have his name?

1.Sf3 d5 2.b3
1.e4 Nc6
1.d4 Sf6 2.c4 e6 3.Sc3 Lb4
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Sc3 Lb4
                       3.e5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.ed c6

and also Nimzowitsch's piroutte in the Modern Benoni (Nf3-d2-c4) & there must be many more!

Completely by accident I stumbled upon this discussion and out of curiosity I made a list of all variations with Nimzowitsch's name attached to it, sometimes shared with others:

1.e4 Nc6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 c6
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.Bb5+
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 (also: Jaenisch)
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.O-O O-O 6.Bxc6 (also: Paulsen)
1 e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 d6 4.d4 Bd7 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Bxc6
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qf6 4.d4 d6 5.Nc4 fxe4 6.Ne3
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nf6 (Nimzowitsch-Rubinstein)
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 d5
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 (Nimzowitsch-Rossolimo attack)
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ (Nimzowitsch-Rossolimo, or Moscow, or Canal-Sokolsky)
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 (also: Winawer)
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Ng8 (also: Vistaneckis (!))
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.Nf3 (Nimzowitsch system)
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.Qg4 (Nimzowitsch variation)
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nxf6+ exf6 (also: Tartakower)
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 O-O 5.Bd3 d5 6.Nf3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.a3 Bxc3 9.bxc3 b6
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Bb4+ 4.Bd2 Qe7
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Ba6
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Nf3 g6 7.Nd2
1.d4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 b6
1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.g3 e6 4.Bg2 Bb4+ (Nimzo-Dutch)
1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.Nf3 Bb4 (Nimzo-English)
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e4
1.c4 e5 2.Nf3
1.b3 (Nimzowitsch-Larsen)
1.Nf3 d5 2.b3 (Nimzowitsch-Larsen)

somehow I don't think Marshall can compete with this, and maybe I still missed a few
  
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TalJechin
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #46 - 05/17/07 at 11:09:47
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MNb wrote on 05/16/07 at 23:17:27:
FYI: On page 85 of The KG for the Creative Aggresor I read

Quote:
5...Bg7
The Paulsen Defence. Not so long ago this was thought to be Black's best defence

(against the Kieseritzky).
I cannot believe, the author has forgotten this one.  Cheesy


Ooops, that one slipped my mind... But who knows if it's really Paulsen & not some amateur called Paulsson misspelled by some engländer?  Wink
« Last Edit: 05/17/07 at 13:12:29 by TalJechin »  
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #45 - 05/16/07 at 23:17:27
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TalJechin wrote on 05/16/07 at 13:25:11:
Willempie wrote on 05/16/07 at 12:49:58:
In this respect I think Paulsen has been particularly ignored in the naming of openings. I think only the Paulsen system in the sicilian has his name, but he pioneered many other lines.


I don't know enough about Paulsen's discoveries to have an opinion, but I've always preferred his name for that multinamed SI.


FYI: On page 85 of The KG for the Creative Aggresor I read

Quote:
5...Bg7
The Paulsen Defence. Not so long ago this was thought to be Black's best defence

(against the Kieseritzky).
I cannot believe, the author has forgotten this one.  Cheesy

Nimzo does not deserve to get his name attached to the French Advance. 3.e5 has been played before by Greco, Staunton, Schallopp, Maróczy and Capablanca amongst many others. Steinitz has played it 6 times. The first one to play it regularly was .... Paulsen.
Nimzo's contribution was 3.e5 c5 4.Nf3, not important enough to deserve a name.
  

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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #44 - 05/16/07 at 14:11:18
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Paulsen was the first to play the Boleslavsky Sicilian, I know that.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #43 - 05/16/07 at 13:25:11
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Willempie wrote on 05/16/07 at 12:49:58:
In this respect I think Paulsen has been particularly ignored in the naming of openings. I think only the Paulsen system in the sicilian has his name, but he pioneered many other lines.


I don't know enough about Paulsen's discoveries to have an opinion, but I've always preferred his name for that multinamed SI.

Another comparatively ignored fellow is Tartakower, who was probably the most universal player ever. He played virtually every opening and pawn structure and equally well!  Shocked And he seemed to have had a genuine curiousness that frequently resulted in new ideas. Still, is there only the QG Tartakower variation named after him?
  
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #42 - 05/16/07 at 12:49:58
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TalJechin wrote on 05/16/07 at 12:05:42:
I still think Aaaron N is the man even if you only count the number of variations - still atm I can only come with the following (though he may have even more variations in the french) and couldn't the QI also reasonably have his name?

1.Sf3 d5 2.b3
1.e4 Nc6
1.d4 Sf6 2.c4 e6 3.Sc3 Lb4
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Sc3 Lb4
                       3.e5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.ed c6

and also Nimzowitsch's piroutte in the Modern Benoni (Nf3-d2-c4) & there must be many more!

In this respect I think Paulsen has been particularly ignored in the naming of openings. I think only the Paulsen system in the sicilian has his name, but he pioneered many other lines.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #41 - 05/16/07 at 12:05:42
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MNb wrote on 05/16/07 at 11:03:09:
I dispute the nomination of Nimzo. What about Marshall? I know Marshall Gambits in the Ruy Lopez, the French (3.Nc3 c5), the Anti-Noteboom, the Scandinavian and the Tarrasch (4.cxd5 exd5 5.e4).
There are also reasons to name 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 d5 and 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 d5 after Marshall, but in these cases the name has not stuck (yet?).
That looks hard to beat.

Please tell me about the Basque. Then I will tell you about the Steenwijk Variation and the Tsjigorin Indian.


I still think Aaaron N is the man even if you only count the number of variations - still atm I can only come with the following (though he may have even more variations in the french) and couldn't the QI also reasonably have his name?

1.Sf3 d5 2.b3
1.e4 Nc6
1.d4 Sf6 2.c4 e6 3.Sc3 Lb4
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Sc3 Lb4
                       3.e5
1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.ed c6

and also Nimzowitsch's piroutte in the Modern Benoni (Nf3-d2-c4) & there must be many more!



Quote:
(according to Alföldy; TalJechin calls it the Polerio Defence).


I'm sure I found that name in some other work - probably Dahlgrün's or Leach's.



Tadaa! Tartakower gives the following as the Basque Opening:


Tartakower,S - Roethel,M [A45]
Paris FRA-ch, 1953

1.d4 Nf6 2.b3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Bd3 d6 5.Bb2 0-0 6.Nf3 Nfd7 7.h4 e5 8.h5 exd4 9.hxg6 hxg6 10.Bxd4 Bxd4 11.Nxd4 Qf6 12.Nc3 Re8 13.Be2 c6 14.Qd2 d5 15.Rd1 Nc5 16.b4 Ne6 17.Nxe6 Bxe6 18.e4 Qg7 19.Qd4 Nd7 20.exd5 cxd5 21.Qxg7+ Kxg7 22.Nxd5 Bxd5 23.Rxd5 Nb6 24.Rd4 Rac8 25.Kd2 Re5 26.Rb1 g5 27.c4 Rc7 28.Bd3 Rce7 29.g3 Nd7 30.f4 Re3 31.Rxd7 1-0

But it's probably too close to the Colle-Zukertort in its main idea... It has a dutch connection btw, as both Krabbé and Welling have played 2.b3 several times.
  
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #40 - 05/16/07 at 11:27:52
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Basque = Catalan?

Nimzowitsch has the Nimzo, in some countries the Winawer French and 1...Nc6. Marshall's gambits are mainly forgotten except the Ruy one and 4 e4 against the Abrahams. In terms of number of games played in 'his' openings, he'd have it hands down.

I suppose at least Worrall (5 Qe2) was English. Among nationalities I think we do the best, probably, at any rate in English-speaking countries (!). Although the Sicilian and Italian games, if you count them the same country, run us close.
  
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #39 - 05/16/07 at 11:03:09
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I know the English Opening, the English Defence and the English Attack against the Najdorf/Scheveningen.
A name that has not stuck is the English Attack in the Ruy Lopez: 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.Qe2 (Euwe).
I have also found the Hungarian Defence, the Hungarian System and the Hungarian Defence against the Kieseritzky (according to Alföldy; TalJechin calls it the Polerio Defence).

I dispute the nomination of Nimzo. What about Marshall? I know Marshall Gambits in the Ruy Lopez, the French (3.Nc3 c5), the Anti-Noteboom, the Scandinavian and the Tarrasch (4.cxd5 exd5 5.e4).
There are also reasons to name 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 d5 and 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 d5 after Marshall, but in these cases the name has not stuck (yet?).
That looks hard to beat.

Please tell me about the Basque. Then I will tell you about the Steenwijk Variation and the Tsjigorin Indian.
  

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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #38 - 05/16/07 at 09:27:07
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Quote:
As I agree, I might consider in the future to return to my once beloved Norwegian Gambit, but never to the Danish.  Wink Poor Swedes.


Well, there's several Swedish variations in other openings, even if the Norwegians also have a few and have lost at least one (Norwegian defence -> North Sea Def).

Which countries have the most variations/openings named after them? The player with the most eponymous variations must be Nimzowitsch I suppose, unless we count Lucena, Polerio and gang...

Btw, when leafing thru Tartakower's Best Games last night, I came upon 'the Basque Opening' - how many would know what that one is today?
  
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #37 - 05/16/07 at 01:14:50
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IMJohnCox wrote on 05/15/07 at 08:41:21:
Like I say I consider the world more interesting if nations stick to their own names for openings.

Anyone remember that Korchnoi/Zak book on the KG? That had splendid names for all these absurd variants - the Quaade, Rosentreter, Ghulam Khasim, and I dare say others. One doesn't seem to see those so much any more.

As I agree, I might consider in the future to return to my once beloved Norwegian Gambit, but never to the Danish.  Wink Poor Swedes.

Now I come to think about it, the oldest monograph about 1.e4 d5 I know was written by the Swede Jonsson. The title is not hard to guess.

I suspect Korchnoi/Zak have borrowed these names from another monograph, Gambit Eröffnungen by Laszlo Alföldy (around 1970).
I don't know about the others, but Quaade (ancient spelling for Kwade, which means Angry) was another obscure Dutch amateur in the dark past. I would love to see a game by him.
  

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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #36 - 05/15/07 at 20:00:27
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I think Ruy Lopez is so much more interesting than Spanish.  It gives a certain feel to the opening.  Whenever I play Bb5, I imagine this Spanish monk studying this in some monastery.  That is cool to me.  It adds character to the game.  Spanish is okay, but much less imaginative.  Besides, Lopez should get some credit for studying and developing chess long ago...
  
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #35 - 05/15/07 at 19:54:20
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If my memory serves, "Polerio Gambit" is a generic name given to 3 Nf3 g5 4 Bc4. If this is right it would comprise the Muzio and Salvio Gambits arising from 4 ...g4, and the various gambits after 4 ...Bg7. But there seems to be another Polerio Gambit! -- 1 e4 e5 2 f4 ef 3 d4!? (as well as a Polerio [i]Defence[/i] to the KG, namely 3 Nf3 g5 4 h4 g4 5 Ne5 Be7). Obviously this Polerio had a flexible opening repertoire and would have been a ChessPublishing subscriber if he could.

My good friend Ken Neat tells me that the Russians call the Ruy Lopez "Ispanskaya partiya" ("Spanish Game").
  
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Re: transpose french exchange to center counter?
Reply #34 - 05/15/07 at 08:41:21
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Yes, this was the argument of course, that the Ruy is called the Spanish in every language except English, so we should change. It was a small part of a general national self-loathing which began to set in about 1970. Like I say I consider the world more interesting if nations stick to their own names for openings.

OK, fair enough about the English Attack - it should indeed properly refer to the lines only after 6 Be3 e6 7 f3 and so on. I don't know about Byrne in particular, I suspect a lot of people played 6 Be3 before.

How about the Queen's Gambit itself? That used to be the Gambit of Aleppo at one time. I don't know how it compares for antiquity to the Muzio (as we call it). I actually thought the Polerio was some slight variant, but perhaps I was wrong.

Anyone remember that Korchnoi/Zak book on the KG? That had splendid names for all these absurd variants - the Quaade, Rosentreter, Ghulam Khasim, and I dare say others. One doesn't seem to see those so much any more.

What do the Russians call the Ruy, anyone?
  
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