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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Best defence against 1.d4 for dragon player (Read 13269 times)
TalJechin
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Re: Best defence against 1.d4 for dragon player
Reply #5 - 06/12/07 at 08:35:35
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Back in the mid 90s when I played the Dragon, I really liked the old Leningrad mainline 7...Nc6 8.d5 Ne5 as black's set-up is almost identical to a YUG mainline. Though it seemed to work best in blitz, while in longer games white usually avoided the sharpest lines with 9.Qb3 or 9.Nfd2. I'm not even sure if it's still playable in our computer era, but I don't recall having seen an outright refutation either.  Undecided

The Modern Benoni also suggests itself, but the most Dragonlike and still reasonably sound may be Tiger's ...a6 system in the Modern Defence - besides after 2.e4 you might also be able to transpose into a dragon with an early ...c5.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Best defence against 1.d4 for dragon player
Reply #4 - 06/11/07 at 18:01:00
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I used to play the Dragon and Benko combo.  On 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3, I would play 2..e6 and hope for a Benoni.  A problem, as you point out, is that it's not always so easy to get there.  But, if White wants to play boring chess, what are you going to do?   

In that regard, I have to say that I used to worry more about getting a Colle, London or Torre than the English lines you mention.  After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 c5 4.Nc3 cxd4 5.Nxd4, I used to play 5..a6, when 6.e4 is a Kan and 6.g3 Qc7 gives them a chance to drop their c-pawn.  On 4.g3, I used to follow the young Kasparov and play 4..cxd4 5. Nxd4 d5 6.Bg2 e5 7.Nf3 d4 8.0-0 Nc6 9.e3 Bc5.       

After 2.Nf3, another idea is to play 2..g6 and switch to a KID.  An FM I know does this against lower-rated players on the theory that they're probably going to head for a d-pawn special.  His view is that Black is better off facing things like the Colle, London and Torre after 2..g6 as opposed to 2..e6.

Just some thoughts,
LeeRoth      
  
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FightingDragon
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Re: Best defence against 1.d4 for dragon player
Reply #3 - 06/11/07 at 16:47:38
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I played the KID for some years when I was quite young, but somehow didn't have much success with it so I moved on.
The Leningrad has been an occasional weapon during the last years, scoring many points against weaker players, but the losses against IMs were disappointing. Perhaps it also had to do with the fact that I wasn't accustomed well enough with the positions. So perhaps the Leningrad remains a candidate, with he bonus that I have some experience with it.

I never really thought about playing the Slav, there are so many different variations, can you recommend a specific setup?

The Nimzo has 2 downsides: 
1. no fianchetto bishop  Cheesy
2. what to do against 3.Nf3?
I watched the DVD from Jacob Aagaard about the QID but his recommendation against the main line seems good for white, while there is also 4.g3 Ba6 5.Qc2 c5 6.d5!?

The Blumenfeld sounds interesting, but as well as the Modern Benoni has one downside:
white doesn't have to enter it!
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 c5 4.Nc3 or 4.g3 are likely to appear quite often!

That is also a problem with the Benko, which I tried to play in some games in the last 2 years: white doesn't comlpy!
I like the Benko quite well, but what after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 (seems to be the main white move below 2500)
c5 3.d5 ???
I tried some move order tricks like 3. ... g6 but there is 4.Nc3 and 4.c4 b5 5.cb5: a6 6.b6!
This Shirov variation seems quite good for white when black can't play 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cb5: a6 5.b6 e6!

So perhaps 3. ... b5 is best, but I have no material on 4.Bg5 and the positions are complicated and dangerous for black. In the only game I played that I got crushed horribly by a grandmaster! Does anybody have some experience here?
If I solved that problem the Benko seems an attractive choice, since the pawn structure is quite similar to the dragon and there is the dragon bishop!  Smiley

  
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thibdb13
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Re: Best defence against 1.d4 for dragon player
Reply #2 - 06/11/07 at 11:28:03
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I am a lot weaker than you but playing also the dragon (and the pirc), I would recommend the following:
- If you like dynamic (but risky) positions: you can choose amongst the Benkö, the Benoni (both with Q-side play) or the Dutch Leningrad.
- If you like less dynamic (but allways entrepreneurial) positions, the KID seems logical.
The point is that they all make use of the fianchettoed bishop and may aim at Q-side play as in the dragon. They all require some knowledge but the dragon does too.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Bibs
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Re: Best defence against 1.d4 for dragon player
Reply #1 - 06/11/07 at 10:02:01
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Am no great expert , but guess around 2300 standard myself. Anyhow here we go.

Something theoretically both sound and dynamic.

KID
Nimzo (plus Blumenfeld maybe)
Slav

Possibly even Leningrad Dutch, though takes longer to familiarise in my experience. Less solid against stronger geezers. 

All in all probably KID, using Gallagher book to kick off with. Khasim DVD may help and inspire. Most his books are naff, but Gufeld's KID book of his KID games worthy. 

If that doesnt appeal, Eddie dearing with Nimzo, Dangerous weapons thrown in. Blumenfeld - basically no material available.

if Slav, wait for James Vigus forthcoming book. In the interim, check out old Sadler book for ideas.

Bibs
  
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FightingDragon
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Best defence against 1.d4 for dragon player
06/11/07 at 09:33:55
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Hello everybody!

Against 1.e4 I play the dragon and am fully satisfied with it. But against 1.d4 I have been playing a lot of openings, some I liked, some less, but have still not found something I like as much as the dragon.
What would you recommend to a dragon player as an 1.d4 defence?
My current opening is the Chigorin, which is nice but sometimes it is very difficult to beat weaker players or to play some positions against stronger players.
I am 2300 so it should be suitable to beat weaker players and hold up against grandmasters (so no Englund gambit suggestions here please  Wink).
  
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