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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Modern Benoni with Nf3 (Read 7040 times)
sssthepro
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #13 - 07/14/07 at 01:30:04
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Frankly, I dont think that Black's play is good. Shouldn't Black play Benoni style, attacking? Black seems to be defending in the game, but his position seems, surprisingly, good enough for a draw, if he played correctly. Thus, I think maybe White missed something. Maybe White should go for a quick attack. Is e5 good after ...Ne8? From what I know, Black always tries to prevent this, and White always tries to achieve this? So, why not play it here?
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #12 - 07/09/07 at 21:23:46
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Quote:
@ "1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3 cd4 4.Nd4."

What is the current theoretical status of the gambit line starting with 4,-e5 5.Nb5 d5 ?

I cant remember seeing it at top level for a while - even if the move order pointed out by Smyslov_Fan has grown quite popular lately.

At least I wouldnt play this with white without beeing really well prepared for the gambit....



Check out the latest update in the Flank Openings section.  Hansen calls this the Kasparov Gambit and covers the recent game Korchnoi-Gurevich.

  
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Viking
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #11 - 07/09/07 at 20:37:30
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@ "1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3 cd4 4.Nd4."

What is the current theoretical status of the gambit line starting with 4,-e5 5.Nb5 d5 ?

I cant remember seeing it at top level for a while - even if the move order pointed out by Smyslov_Fan has grown quite popular lately.

At least I wouldnt play this with white without beeing really well prepared for the gambit....

  
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nyoke
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #10 - 07/09/07 at 20:16:14
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known as the Anti-Benoni variation of the symmetrical english...
  
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nyoke
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #9 - 07/09/07 at 20:15:23
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It very wellmight, Smyslov_Fan, this line of yours that is more commonly know a
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #8 - 07/02/07 at 22:16:34
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@kylemeister,

Thanks for sharing Micheal Stean's pithy way of describing Black's problem!

@all:

Lately, especially in blitz, I've had some tremendous success with 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.Nf3 cd4 4.Nd4. 

I thought it was mostly a throw-away line, but I saw some similar play this last week in Dortmund.  So who knows, this may be an interesting anti-Benoni-Benko system after all.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #7 - 07/02/07 at 16:54:14
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SF,

My impression was that 12...Ne8, 15...f6 and 20. a4 all seemed in order, actually.  From Mida's notes, we might infer that White should try to emulate Richter's play.  But maybe if White's knight is hanging around on f3 rather than going to c4, Black should hold off on ...Ne5 and play, probably, 15...Qe7 ...

I don't think Black had any need to pilfer from the QID, since ...b6 and ...Ba6 (in order to trade it for White's bishop or [c4-]knight) is pretty common in the Modern Benoni, e.g. in the Classical, Fianchetto, and e4/Bd3/Nge2 (doesn't have a name that I know of) systems.  To use Michael Stean's nice phrase, Black generally has one minor piece too many for the "carrying capacity" of his structure.  In a way 9...b6 looks quite logical, since White has ruled out ...Bg4 (the way Black often steers for the desired exchange in the [Old?!] Classical) ...

Werle, by the way, is one of the players I've been "following" lately (basically via Dutch-language websites).  He was evidently proud of the Mrdja game (e.g. commenting "it's worth the trouble to play it over"); maybe he'll yet get around to annotating it ...
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #6 - 06/25/07 at 07:19:52
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kylemeister,

Thanks for the link to the notes.

The commentator, Mida, gives some confusing notes.  He states that 12..Ne8 is not as common as 12...a6, but suggests that after 13.a4 White has been winning.  I can understand that.  

Then he doesn't give any comments until after move 17 saying that the position is solid but White has the initiative.  So somewhere between move 18 and 24 White loses any edge he might have had.  I'm guessing it's move 20.a4.  What do you think?

He didn't comment on 15...f6?! (my marks) but states that Black could have gained full equality by playing ...f5 at the key moment.  

While I agree that 24...f5! was the move, I still look at 15...f6 as asking for trouble.

BTW, I think the idea of b6 Ba6 and Bxd3 may have been stolen from the QID lines that have scored so well.

Here's his full commentary:

1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 Nf6 5.e4 d6 6.Nf3 0–0 7.Bd3 e6 8.h3 exd5 9.cxd5 b6
Mrdja's style! This move is not uncommon, but 9...b5!? and; 9...Na6 are more popular alternatives.
10.0–0 Ba6 11.Bf4 Bxd3 12.Qxd3 Ne8
12...a6 is the most common continuation, but Black has lost many games after White's 13.a4
13.Nd2
This looks to be a novelty. 13.Rfe1 is more common: 13...Nd7 (or 13...f6 14.Bh2 Nd7 15.Qc2 Qe7 16.Nd2 Nc7 17.a4 Rfb8 18.Nb5 Ne8 19.Nc4 Ne5 20.f4 Nxc4 21.Qxc4 a6 22.Nc3 and White is slightly better, Barbero-Saeed, Novi Sad 1990) 14.Rad1 f6 15.h4 Ne5 16.Bxe5 fxe5 17.Ng5 Qe7 18.Qh3 Nc7 19.Ne6 Rf6 20.Re3 Bh6 21.Rg3 and White has a strong initiative, Richter-Konietzka, Berlin 1998.
13...Nd7 14.Nc4 Qe7 15.Rad1 f6 16.Rfe1 Ne5 17.Qe2 Nc7
Black's position is solid, but White has a more active play.
18.Bh2 Nxc4 19.Qxc4 Qd7 20.a4 a6 21.b3 b5 22.Qd3 Rad8 23.Kh1 Rfe8
Black has now nothing to be afraid of. That is probably the reason why Werle pushes for a win and plays a risky move...
24.f4
24.g4 was a safer way for trying to get the initiative.
24...Kh8?!
Mrdja misses a good chance to get a full equality. 24...f5 was stronger, e.g.: 25.e5 dxe5 26.fxe5 b4 27.Na2 Qxd5 (27...Nxd5!? 28.Qxa6 Qf7 29.Qc4 Bf8=) 28.Qc2 Qb7 29.Qxc5 Rxd1 30.Rxd1 Bf8 31.Qc4+ Ne6 and Black is ok.
25.f5 g5 26.Ra1 Ra8 27.Re2 Bf8 28.Rea2
After 24...Kh8?! White is improving his position move by move.
28...b4 29.Nb1 a5 30.Nd2 Na6?
The immediate 30...Ra6 was clearly better: the text move loses two tempos!
31.Nc4 Qc7 32.Re2 Nb8 33.Qg3 Ra6
This is why 30...Na6 was a bad mistake!
34.h4 h6 35.Qg4 Qf7 36.hxg5 hxg5 37.Rd1 Nd7 38.Rd3
The "h" file is open and White is now ready to use it. Black has a too passive position and a good defence is very hard to find.
38...Kg8 39.Rh3 Rd8 40.Rh5 Nb6?
The decisive mistake. 40...Qg7 was the only way to put up a resistance.
41.e5!
The first blow!
41...dxe5
41...Nxd5 was not better, e.g.: 42.Nxd6 Bxd6 43.exd6 Qg7 44.Qf3 Qf7 45.Qh3 Qg7 46.Rh6+-; 41...Nxc4 42.exf6 Qxf6 43.Rxg5+ Bg7 44.bxc4 was also hopeless for Black.
42.Nxe5!
The second blow!
42...Qxd5 43.Rd2!
The third blow! 43.Ng6 would have won anyway, but the text move is far more brilliant.
43...Qxd2 44.Rh8+!!
The fourth and final blow.
44...Kg7
The rook can't be taken: 44...Kxh8 45.Qh5+ Bh6 (45...Kg8 46.Qf7+ Kh8 47.Ng6#) 46.Qxh6+ Kg8 47.Qg6+ Kh8 48.Nf7#
45.Qh3 1–0
Black can't avoid mate, so he resigns. E.g.:45.Qh3 Qe1+ 46.Bg1 Qh4 (46...fxe5 47.Qh6+ Kf7 48.Qg6+ Ke7 49.Qe6#) 47.Rxh4 fxe5 (47...gxh4 48.Qg4+ Kh7 49.Qg6+ Kh8 50.Nf7#) 48.Rh7+ Kf6 49.Qh5 e4 50.Bh2 etc. A brilliant final combination by Werle.

Posted by Mida

(From Mida's Chess Corner, http://midaschess.blogspot.com/2007/06/jan-werle-dutch-king-in-lodi.html )
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #5 - 06/25/07 at 06:28:32
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@smyslov,

9...b6 seemed unfamiliar to me in that position, though plausible enough.  I checked ECO and saw that they don't like it, but Mrdja (a Croatian IM) deviated from the 11...c4 played by Gufeld and cited in ECO (Mrdja's move strikes me as more natural).  You can take a look at some notes (by an FM) to the Werle-Mrdja game at http://midaschess.blogspot.com/2007/06/jan-werle-dutch-king-in-lodi.html .
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #4 - 06/25/07 at 01:34:39
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@kylemeister,

You're right, I was referring to the Classical System.  I was trying to show that White has numerous ways to play for the advantage.

Your game is very interesting, but it seemed that Black played quite passively against his higher-rated opponent.  I'm not criticising ...Ba6-xd3, but 12...Ne8 and 15...f6.

Black needs to play more actively to survive in the Modern Benoni.  I don't know if there's any theory on Black's set-up, but I wasn't particularly impressed.  Considering this was played only a few days ago, do you have any more information about the variation?
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #3 - 06/24/07 at 04:49:49
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 06/24/07 at 04:11:47:
I agree with sssthepro.

But I've also had success leaving h3 out and playing Be2.  There was some analysis of a game by Timman once (I think it was in Opening Preparation, in which White refrained from h3 and Black refrained from Bg4.  The commentator stated that both players were probably right.

The great thing about the White side of the Modern Benoni is that almost all variations are theoretically good.  The horrible thing is that Black often wins anyway. Embarrassed


That's a bit puzzling.  It sounds like you're just referring to the Classical system, against which one of Black's major lines (maybe the most respected one) involves ...a6 and ...Bg4.

For some possible inspiration in the h3 + Bd3 line (Modern Classical), here's a recent game I like ...

Werle,J. (2556) - Mrdja,M. (2367) [A70], Lodi 10.6.2007
1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 Nf6 5.e4 d6 6.Nf3 0–0 7.Bd3 e6 8.h3 exd5 9.cxd5 b6 10.0–0 Ba6 11.Bf4 Bxd3 12.Qxd3 Ne8 13.Nd2 Nd7 14.Nc4 Qe7 15.Rad1 f6 16.Rfe1 Ne5 17.Qe2 Nc7 18.Bh2 Nxc4 19.Qxc4 Qd7 20.a4 a6 21.b3 b5 22.Qd3 Rad8 23.Kh1 Rfe8 24.f4 Kh8 25.f5 g5 26.Ra1 Ra8 27.Re2 Bf8 28.Rea2 b4 29.Nb1 a5 30.Nd2 Na6 31.Nc4 Qc7 32.Re2 Nb8 33.Qg3 Ra6 34.h4 h6 35.Qg4 Qf7 36.hxg5 hxg5 37.Rd1 Nd7 38.Rd3 Kg8 39.Rh3 Rd8 40.Rh5 Nb6 41.e5 dxe5 42.Nxe5 Qxd5 43.Rd2 Qxd2 44.Rh8+ Kg7 45.Qh3 1–0


  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #2 - 06/24/07 at 04:11:47
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I agree with sssthepro.

But I've also had success leaving h3 out and playing Be2.  There was some analysis of a game by Timman once (I think it was in Opening Preparation, in which White refrained from h3 and Black refrained from Bg4.  The commentator stated that both players were probably right.

The great thing about the White side of the Modern Benoni is that almost all variations are theoretically good.  The horrible thing is that Black often wins anyway. Embarrassed
  
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sssthepro
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Re: Modern Benoni with Nf3
Reply #1 - 06/23/07 at 12:52:23
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Play the Modern Benoni with h3 and Bd3
  
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Modern Benoni with Nf3
06/21/07 at 23:15:33
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What is the best way to play the white side of the modern benoni with nf3 (so no 4 pawn attack). I like something sharp and attacking. I was thinking of the knights tour, but it seems like not too many books like it. Also, a lot of books like the modern variation, but what is white's plan there? Is there anything else I could try next to the two I mentioned. Thanks.
  
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