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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) QGD Exchange with an early ..h6 (Read 10655 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #31 - 07/18/07 at 13:05:03
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MarinFan,

Thanks, the Yusupov-Nogueiras game is indeed one of the games that every QGD exchange player should know.  I am familiar with it, but I think there was another game played about the same time (or perhaps just a bit later) that was almost its twin. 

You may be right though, even the other game may have seen White play Nf3 instead of Nge2.  Oh well.  Embarrassed
  
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #30 - 07/18/07 at 12:28:20
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Hello,

Maybe mean this game

[Event "Candidates Tournament"]
[Site "Montpellier"]
[Date "1985.10.??"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Jussupow,Artur"]
[Black "Nogueiras,Jesus"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "D35"]
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bg5 Nbd7 6.cxd5 exd5 7.e3 Bd6 8.Bd3 Nf8
9.Ne5 Qb6 10.0-0 Bxe5 11.dxe5 Ng4 12.Qa4 Qxb2 13.Rac1 Bd7 14.Qd4 f6 15.exf6 gxf6 16.Bxf6 Rg8
17.Nb5 Qxb5 18.Bxb5 Ne6 19.Qb2 cxb5 20.Bh4  1-0

which is studied in one of the Yusopov book's, probably Opening Preparation? It is a different approach for white than the rest of this thread though.

Bye John S
  
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #29 - 07/18/07 at 03:42:30
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BTW:

Kasparov annotates the Botvinnik-Keres (1952) game in his My Great Predecessors series.  I found it in volume 2, p. 141 (2003 English edition).

Kasparov says "11...Bd6?  A serious positional mistake (Black was tempted by the threat of 12...Bxh2+).  11...Ng4 was correct, and 11...Bg4 also deserved some consideration."

This position is without Black having played ...h6.  Instead, Black had played Nbd7-f8.
  
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #28 - 07/18/07 at 03:34:20
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Markovich, there was also a game in the late 1980s or early 1990s in which Sokolov or Yusupov crushed Granda Zuniga who played ...Bd6.  It was theoretically important, but my memory is going soft so I can't tell you the date of it.  I'll try and dig it up.

The main reason I didn't mention this earlier is that I don't remember whether ..h6 was played.  I'll try to find out though.
  
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #27 - 07/17/07 at 13:10:54
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IMJohnCox wrote on 07/15/07 at 01:29:28:
Funny enough I've had this 7...Bd6 played against me twice, once by GM Kiriakov and once last Monday. On neither occasion have I fancied what I said in the book, which was the product of a lot of angst at the time. I haven't revisited 11...Bxh2+ but I was definitely aware of it at the time (one idea of Kh1 is to defang this idea) and I had a computer by my side, so I suspect I concluded that White could survive.

I'm never as confident as textbooks about this ...Bd6 being bad. I do quite like MNb's 11 h3 and 12 000, which somehow seems logical to me. Promoting g4 looks natural with ...h6 in, and so does having a N on e2 so that ...g5, Bg3 Bxg3; fxg3 Rxe3 never works.


Didn't Botvinnik famously defeat Keres after this ...Bd6?  That may account for theory's being so confident on this point.
  

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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #26 - 07/16/07 at 02:30:54
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Alatorzev deserves the credits, not me ...
  

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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #25 - 07/15/07 at 01:29:28
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Funny enough I've had this 7...Bd6 played against me twice, once by GM Kiriakov and once last Monday. On neither occasion have I fancied what I said in the book, which was the product of a lot of angst at the time. I haven't revisited 11...Bxh2+ but I was definitely aware of it at the time (one idea of Kh1 is to defang this idea) and I had a computer by my side, so I suspect I concluded that White could survive.

I'm never as confident as textbooks about this ...Bd6 being bad. I do quite like MNb's 11 h3 and 12 000, which somehow seems logical to me. Promoting g4 looks natural with ...h6 in, and so does having a N on e2 so that ...g5, Bg3 Bxg3; fxg3 Rxe3 never works.
  
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #24 - 07/13/07 at 00:32:01
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You may want to check out the games of GM Alex Yermolinsky who is an expert in the QGDX. His book 'The Road to Chess Improvement' has an interesting overview of the QGDX that you may want to look into.
  
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #23 - 07/08/07 at 04:13:53
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If you're interested in this line, check out the Henrichs CD.  He has a survey on 7..Bd6, about which he says, "in theory this variation enjoys a dubious reputation, probably deservedly."

LeeRoth
  
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Re: A QGD exchange line in Cox's repertoire book
Reply #22 - 07/08/07 at 02:40:21
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Quote:
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.e3 Bd6 7.Bd3 0-0 8.Nge2 Nbd7 9.Qc2 h6 10.Bh4 Re8 11.0-0 Bxh2+.


This is a cute idea: 12.Kxh2 Ng4+ 13.Kh3 Ndf6 14.Bf5 g5 15.Bh4 Re4 16.Bxe4 Nxe3+ 17.Kh2 Nxc2 18.Bxc2 and White still must be better, though Ng4+ 19.Kg2 f5 is not entirely clear.
11.h3 Qa5 12.0-0-0 has already been played by Alatorzev in 1938 according to Taimanov, who thinks White is better.
Of course there is also 8.Nf3.
  

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A QGD exchange line in Cox's repertoire book
Reply #21 - 07/07/07 at 09:53:08
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Since this is a thread about Black deviations from the main lines, I would like to mention one that I've seen a view times based on an early ...Bd6.  Often this line is omitted in most books covering the QGD exchange, so I was pleased to see this mentioned in John Cox's Starting Out: 1d4! since it has some bite in amateur play.  Here's the brief line he gives with quotations from Cox:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.e3 Bd6 "is very frequent below grandmaster levels:  White can continue more or less as in our main set-up although he needs to take a little care of Black's extra play down the e-file." 7.Bd3 0-0 8.Nge2 Nbd7 9.Qc2 h6 10.Bh4 Re8 11.0-0 Nf8 12.Kh1 "with much the same sort of game, although at some point Black is going to find that the threat of e5 gains a shade of tempo for White."  (Cox)

When I looked at this line, the position after 11.0-0 began to raise a red flag in my mind when I saw the possibility 11...Bxh2+.  I looked at this briefly, but I didn't find a satisfying defense for White.  I don't use a computer engine for analysis, so maybe I am missing something.  Is there something here for White?

As an alternative to 11.0-0, I looked into the flexible 11.h3 which seems promising for White.  In fact, when I checked one of my BookUp databases, I had looked at this position before and entered the model game Volkov-Kozlov given below:

[Event "RUS-Cup5"]
[Site "Ekaterinburg"]
[Date "1997.02.13"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Volkov,Sergey"]
[Black "Kozlov,Oleg"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "D36"]
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6 6.e3 Nbd7 7.Qc2 Bd6 8.Bd3 h6
9.Bh4 0-0 10.Nge2 Re8 11.h3 Qa5 12.Bg3 Bxg3 13.Nxg3 c5 14.0-0 c4 15.Bf5 b5 16.e4 b4
17.Nxd5 Nxd5 18.exd5 Nb6 19.Bxc8 Raxc8 20.d6 g6 21.Ne4 Nd7 22.Rfe1 Kg7 23.a3 bxa3 24.Re3 a2
25.Qc3 Qd5 26.Nc5 Rxe3 27.fxe3 Qxd6 28.Rxa2 Qc7 29.Ra5 Kg8 30.Qa3 Ra8 31.Ne4 Nb6 32.Re5 Kg7
33.Re7 Qd8 34.Nd6  1-0

I think this is good for White, but I am curious if 11.0-0 Bxh2+ works for White.

By the way, Kozlov has several games with the above setup as Black, so you might want to look at some of his other games if you want to study this line.  Volkov's line seems to be one of the most convincing tries for White.

On a side note, I just started reading Cox's book and so far I really like it.  This is a great overview, especially given the space limitations.  His choices are honest and he has a knack for finding the big points most relevant to practical play.
  

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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #20 - 07/06/07 at 16:13:53
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Yes, we are talking about a sideline.  The sideline is introduced by the move 9..h6; the main line is 9..Re8.  After 9..h6 10.Bh4 Re8, the position is different.  For one thing, with the Bishop on h4, it now has access to f2, where it is well placed to support central expansion.

IMHO, White's best move now is 11.f3.  This can be debated, I know.  Many players will look at the pawn on ..h6 and think that the idea of 0-0-0, h3 and g4-g5 now looks good.  But I think there is a problem with this plan.  Principally, if White plays 11.0-0-0, Black has 11..Ne4! which gives him good counterplay.  

After 11.f3, I have 121 games in my database.  11..c5 is most popular, followed by 11..Nf8. The position I want to look at, though, arises after 11..Qc7, which has very rarely been played.  So, we are actually in a sideline of a sideline!! Smiley

  
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #19 - 07/06/07 at 14:58:35
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PS: I found the print source for the Botvinnik-Larsen game:  it is at the end of note 47 to D36 in the old ECO.  The game is not at the end of any of the key lines given, it is just part of a side note.
  
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #18 - 07/06/07 at 10:25:41
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I've doen just a small amount of the research I will need to do to make a complete analysis of the positions that LeeRoth mentioned in his first comments.  Here's my preliminary work:

First of all, the game Botvinnik-Larsen seems to have been a rarity rather than a standard position.  What "sources" (note the plural) suggest that this is a major line in the QG Exchange?

I did go back and take a look at similar games in which Black played Nbd7, Qc7, and Re8 before White castled.  There were not many examples, but White tended to castle q-side, attack the exposed Q on c7 (which seems counter-intuitive, but Topalov won a simul game this way), and attack with h3 and g4.  The titled players who used this technique won more than they drew, but there were very few examples (so far) that I have found.

Here's the problem:  Black rarely mixes systems the way the Botvinnik-Larsen game did.  Larsen ended up losing a long game, but I'm sure White could have improved on the game continuation.  (I'll provide it in another comment if anyone's actually interested.)

White seems to get interesting attacks because Black's pieces are not working together.  This can be seen in the very idea of playing ...Be7-d6.  If Black is going to play this way, perhaps he should consider the more active lines involving ...c7-c5 instead of c7-c6.
  
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Re: QGD Exchange with an early ..h6
Reply #17 - 07/05/07 at 21:16:07
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I've mentioned it before, but Burgess and Pedersen's The Queen's Gambit for the Attacking Player has some excellent information.

Another great source for any QGD player is Baburin's highly acclaimed but seemingly little-read Winning Pawn Structures which focuses almost entirely on the IQP (Isolated Queen Pawn).
  
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