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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Countering the Evans Gambit (Read 4837 times)
micawber
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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #11 - 08/31/07 at 08:09:39
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@Markovich

I agree with you about 18.Bf3, Kc7! in the long Christiansen variation after 14.Nf7!?.
But just wondering:
if the king is going queenside anyway, maybe the following is sufficient for a small (tiny?) white advantage:

18.Rd1, Kc7 19.Na3!? (with the idea that depending on blacks plan the knight can either go
to b5 or to c4/icw Bf4; perhaps white can also cramp black a bit further with a4/a5):  19....Bd7 20.Rb1 (attack on b7), Bc6 21.Nb5+ getting at least a pair of B's in an open position.

Or am I missing some deadly tactic?

@TonyKosten
A small point about transpositions:
8...d5 9.exd,Ne5 10.Qxd4,f6

Now 11.Re1,N7g6 transposes back to the Christiansen lines
Instead black can play 11...Bb6
when the white tactic 12.Bb5+,c6 (12...Bd7 is safe and sound)  13.xc6,Bxd4 14.cxb7,Bd7 backfires
and  12.Qh4,Bf5 is perfectly playable Toth-Djurdevic, Belgrade 2003.
  
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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #10 - 08/30/07 at 22:50:13
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Markovich wrote on 08/30/07 at 03:15:35:
Who am I to doubt a GM


If it is any consolation, here is one GM who globally agrees with you! Shocked
I suppose Marin is worried about Black's awkward king and slight dark-squared weaknesses on the kingside, but I don't see how White can exploit this, especially as his queenside is completely undeveloped. 15...Qd7 might be even stronger, as Black has nothing to fear in the endgame and 16 Qd4 can be met by the greedy 16...Ba6 17 Bh6 Rhg8 no doubt.
In the other line (with 8...d5), apart from the variation Markovich gives, which seems fine, Black has also scored well with the immediate 10...f6, keeping the knight on e7 to keep the e-file blocked and control f5, does anyone know anything wrong with this?
  
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Markovich
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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #9 - 08/30/07 at 03:15:35
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belgian wrote on 08/28/07 at 21:14:57:
brabo wrote on 08/27/07 at 17:46:51:
Did you have a look at my post of Re: Kaufman's 10.Qd4 in the Evans Gambit Reply #2 - 03/23/07 at 09:19:29 which handles mainly d5? Any comment?


8. - d5 looks safe enough, but (as I said) the more ambitious move is 8. - Ne5 since 9. Bb3 d5 10. exd5 O-O is known to be good for Black (as shown in e.g. Morozevich-Adams, Wijk aan Zee 2001). I haven't yet had a chance to analyze how Black is faring after 8. - Ne5 9. Nxf7 Nxf7 9. 10. Bxf7+ Kxf7 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Qxa5 d5.


As observed in the original post, Marin in recent his 1...e5 book claims that White has a significant initiative after 11. Qh5+.  Who am I to doubt a GM, but I am not entirely sure that that's true, since White has no pieces out.  11...g6 12. Qxa5 d5 at first sight looks perfectly adequate.   E.g. 13. Bg5 c6  14. Qc5 (so as to meet 14...dxe4 with 15. Qe5) 14...h6  15. Bxe7 Qxe7  16. Qxd4 Rd8 and it's a very dynamic game with opposite pawn majorities, but how is Black worse?  Still, instead of 13. Bg5, White has 13. f3.  But after 13...b6  14. Qa4 d3  15. Rd1 Qd6 is White better?  How?

This could be important because 8...Ne5 sidesteps 8...d5 9. exd5 Ne5  10. Qd4 as upheld by Christiansen on Silman's website.  As you point out, 8...Ne5  9. Bb3 d5  10. exd5 transposes into 8...d5 9. exd5 Ne5  10. Bb3.  White also has 10. cxd4 and 10. Qxd4.  After the first, Black seems to stand well enough with 10...Ng4; after the second, 10...N7g6 appears adequate, e.g. 11. exd5 0-0. 

But I even doubt Christiansen, who claims that 8...d5  9. exd5 Ne5  10. Qd4 N7g6  11. Re1 f6 12.d6 Bb6 13.Qd5 Qd7  14. Nf7"!" c6 (I don't like Christiansen's 14...Qf5 because of 15. Qd2)  15. Nxe5 cxd5  16. Nxd7+ Kxd7  17. Bxd5 Kxd6  18. Bf3 and Christiansen says "White has a clear plus (or at least this position is much easier to play for White)."  Well, this makes two different GMs that I disagree with in one note!  Call me an idiot, but I fail to see any pull at all for White after 18...Kc7.  What is he talking about?  E.g. 19. Na3 Bd7  20. Nc4 Bc5 =.

But having said all this, I really think that the sternest test of the Evans is to go for the "Normal Position" with 4...Bxb4  5. c3 Ba5  6. d4 exd4  7. 0-0 Bb6!  8. cxd4 d6.   Black has a sound position and an extra pawn, and the burden is upon White to prove that he has enough for it.  That is the position that I would encourage everyone to take a good look at.  The best source of which I am aware, and a rather complete one, is the 1997 edition of Play the Evans Gambit by Harding and Cafferty.
« Last Edit: 08/30/07 at 13:11:53 by Markovich »  

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belgian
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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #8 - 08/28/07 at 21:14:57
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brabo wrote on 08/27/07 at 17:46:51:
Did you have a look at my post of Re: Kaufman's 10.Qd4 in the Evans Gambit Reply #2 - 03/23/07 at 09:19:29 which handles mainly d5? Any comment?


8. - d5 looks safe enough, but (as I said) the more ambitious move is 8. - Ne5 since 9. Bb3 d5 10. exd5 O-O is known to be good for Black (as shown in e.g. Morozevich-Adams, Wijk aan Zee 2001). I haven't yet had a chance to analyze how Black is faring after 8. - Ne5 9. Nxf7 Nxf7 9. 10. Bxf7+ Kxf7 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Qxa5 d5.
  
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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #7 - 08/27/07 at 17:46:51
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belgian wrote on 07/03/07 at 20:59:51:
Hi,

I am building my 1. ...e5 repertoire, mainly based on Marin and Kaufman (with Emms and Davies thrown in for good measure  Wink ).

I am having trouble reconciling Marin's and Kaufman's recommendation against the Evans and was hoping one of the experts here could enlighten me.

After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4!? Bxb4 5. c3 Ba5 6. d4 exd4 7. O-O Nge7! 8. Ng5, Kaufman likes 8. - Ne5 not fearing 9. Nxf7 Nxf7 9. 10. Bxf7+ Kxf7 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Qxa5 d5 (which Marin says gives White the initiative) and claims Marin's preference 8. - d5 9. exd5 Ne5 10. Qxd4 f6 11. Re1! Bb6 12. Qh4! favors White.

I'd like to make 8. - Ne5 work as after 9. Bb3 d5 10. exd5 O-O, I believe Black can create better winning chances than after 8. - d5 9. exd5 Ne5 10. Qxd4 which Marin analyzes as equal.

So, I am left wondering: what's is the status of 8. - Ne5 and 8. - d5 ?

Thanks,

<belgian/>

Did you have a look at my post of Re: Kaufman's 10.Qd4 in the Evans Gambit
Reply #2 - 03/23/07 at 09:19:29 which handles mainly d5? Any comment?
  
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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #6 - 07/06/07 at 10:37:44
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GenghisC and all,

Yes, Felgaer - Hariskrishna looks to be where its at.

Stohl's comments in Megabase 2007 dont make it look too rosy for black.

perhaps 10 Qb3 may be more ! than !? as appears most challenging.  Earlier divergences dont seem to hold water for black, dont really trust any of the piece for pawns stuff,  but Rybka diverges from Stohl after:

e4 e5
Nf3 Nc6
Bc4 Bc5
b4 Bb4
c3 Bd6
d4 f6
00 00
Re1 h6
Nbd2 Re8
Qb3 Qe7
Nh4 ('!' stohl's suggested improvement)
...Na5
Qa4 b6

Continues with Ng6, Qd8 or Nf5 Qf8.

Makes lot of sense for black- continue strongpoint of e5, the only thing holding up white, while trying to get out the problem bishop. Had ideas of white trying to reroute to k-side somehow, with Bd3, knight round, taking advantage of offside black a5 knight, but black appears very solid. e4 pawn under cosh proving awkward for white.
My humble views not rybka's, as it does not appear to talk as yet. Next version maybe.

Views anyone? GenghisC? (splendid name btw)

  
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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #5 - 07/06/07 at 00:10:28
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I should add that if you can make it work, the Bd6 variation would probably be the best thing to play, in Ba5 black has to know the theory and bend over backwards for a while. No sweat for Aronian (look the game up) but not so easy for the rest of us.
  

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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #4 - 07/06/07 at 00:08:17
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I did find a (perhaps slight) problem with the Bd6 retreat:

I didn't like the look of

Felgaer - Harikrishna, Dos Hermanas 2005.

White waits until Re8 and then goes (for me the perennially annoying Evans move) Qb3. This more or less forces black to go Qe7, after this your on your own as Harikrishna lost and I cannot really find a plan to unravel black's position. Black wants to play Bf8 but by forcing a delay white can get an advantage.

Anyway, something to look out for.
  

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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #3 - 07/05/07 at 15:17:05
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As per Holbox,

...Bd6 indeed worth considering.

Article in SOS 3  pp117-126 (ed. Bosch J.) Designated the 'Stoneware' defence therein. Played by some big guys, so pretty sound one would think.
  
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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #2 - 07/05/07 at 08:56:01
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You can look here,

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/100303_evan_gambit.html

and  here

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/100303_evan_gambit_2.html

but what  do you think about the ...Bd6 retreat? It's rarely played but I haven't found problems with it.

  

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Re: Countering the Evans Gambit
Reply #1 - 07/04/07 at 18:37:49
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The earlier thread(s) on this question weren't very helpful.

After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4!? Bxb4 5. c3 Ba5 6. d4 exd4 7. O-O Nge7! 8. Ng5 Ne5!?, how does one respond to 9. Qxd4 ?

And, is Black OK after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4!? Bxb4 5. c3 Ba5 6. d4 exd4 7. O-O Nge7! 8. Ng5 Ne5!? 9. Nxf7 Nxf7 9. 10. Bxf7+ Kxf7 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Qxa5 d5 ?


<belgian/>
  
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Countering the Evans Gambit
07/03/07 at 20:59:51
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Hi,

I am building my 1. ...e5 repertoire, mainly based on Marin and Kaufman (with Emms and Davies thrown in for good measure  Wink ).

I am having trouble reconciling Marin's and Kaufman's recommendation against the Evans and was hoping one of the experts here could enlighten me.

After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4!? Bxb4 5. c3 Ba5 6. d4 exd4 7. O-O Nge7! 8. Ng5, Kaufman likes 8. - Ne5 not fearing 9. Nxf7 Nxf7 9. 10. Bxf7+ Kxf7 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Qxa5 d5 (which Marin says gives White the initiative) and claims Marin's preference 8. - d5 9. exd5 Ne5 10. Qxd4 f6 11. Re1! Bb6 12. Qh4! favors White.

I'd like to make 8. - Ne5 work as after 9. Bb3 d5 10. exd5 O-O, I believe Black can create better winning chances than after 8. - d5 9. exd5 Ne5 10. Qxd4 which Marin analyzes as equal.

So, I am left wondering: what's is the status of 8. - Ne5 and 8. - d5 ?

Thanks,

<belgian/>
  
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