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Poll closed Question: Which setup do you prefer when playing the Bird
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Classical    
  6 (24.0%)
Queenside fianchetto    
  5 (20.0%)
Leningrad    
  6 (24.0%)
Antoshin    
  0 (0.0%)
Stonewall    
  1 (4.0%)
Hoping for an early Bg4    
  0 (0.0%)
Hoping for the From    
  3 (12.0%)
Hoping for Sicilian    
  0 (0.0%)
Othersetups    
  4 (16.0%)




Total votes: 25
« Created by: thibdb13 on: 07/08/07 at 16:29:25 »
Normal Topic Bird's opening - which setup? (Read 7034 times)
Black_Widow
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Re: Bird's opening - which setup?
Reply #8 - 08/21/07 at 16:33:04
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When going for a GP Attack, where does your light square bishop go? Agressively(?) to c4 or to e2 as Taylor seems to recommend?
I think it depends on the move order.

If black has played 1... c5 and 2... Nc6, I think it is good to go for the Grand Prix. After 1... c5 and 2... e6, I do not think the GPA is especially good.

I would play Bb5 after
1. f4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. e4 g6 4. Bb5 Bg7 5. Bxc6 with a plus for white

I would play Bc4 after
1. f4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. e4 d6 4. Nc3 g6 5. Bc4 Bg7 with a dangerous initiative for white. This variation is big fun for white.

I would play Be2 after (if I would play 3 e3)
1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. Be2 Nf6 5. O-O O-O 6. d3 c5 7. Nc3 with easier play for white

I hope these examples help a bit. However there are lots of subtleties involved in move orders, such as when white has played Nc3, then Bb5 is often less attractive, because of ... Nd4. When white has a dilemma what to do.

I think that Taylor's recommendation for Be2 in the GPA comes from his experience with the Dutch. But in several GPA lines, Bc4 or Bb5 are much more difficult for black.

If you look for theory, go for old books on the Grand Prix Attack, since via the 1 e4 move order, white nowadays plays 2 Nc3, to avoid 2 ... d5. I think the old Grand Prix was much more dangerous, and would still be very popular, if 2 Nc3 could be avoided.


  
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thibdb13
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Re: Bird's opening - which setup?
Reply #7 - 08/21/07 at 10:57:31
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When going for a GP Attack, where does your light square bishop go? Agressively(?) to c4 or to e2 as Taylor seems to recommend?
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Bird's opening - which setup?
Reply #6 - 07/16/07 at 15:53:32
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thibdb13 wrote on 07/16/07 at 12:58:35:
What are you playing in such a case? 1.f4-e6 2.Nf3-d5 and then e3 or b3 and if e3 with which setup?

I only play b3 if black has played at least c5 with d5, or e6 with (c5 or d5), prefarably also developing the Night to c6. Below some ideas how I play the Bird:

1 f4 c5 2 Nf3 e6 3 e4 playing the grand prix like in the old days
1 f4 c5 2 Nf3 d6 3 e4 playing the grand prix like in the old days
1 f4 c5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 e4 playing the grand prix like in the old days
1. f4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. e3 c5 4. Be2 Nc6 5. O-O e6 6. d3, with Nc3 to follow
1. f4 d6 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. e4 Bg7 (5. Bc4 O-O 6. d3 c6) delaying d4 so getting black on unfamiliar ground
1. f4 c5 2. g3 g6 3. Bg2 Bg7 4. d3 Nc6 5. e4 d6 6. Nf3 e6 7. O-O Nge7 8. c3 avoiding Nc3 so getting black on unfamiliar ground


  
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thibdb13
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Re: Bird's opening - which setup?
Reply #5 - 07/16/07 at 12:58:35
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Black_Widow wrote on 07/15/07 at 20:17:01:
I play the Leningrad Bird, and the Leningrader with black. But with white I do not like to play the Leningrad bird against a black setup with e6 and d5, since it is hard to win.

What are you playing in such a case? 1.f4-e6 2.Nf3-d5 and then e3 or b3 and if e3 with which setup?
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Bird's opening - which setup?
Reply #4 - 07/15/07 at 20:17:01
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I play the Leningrad Bird, and the Leningrader with black. But with white I do not like to play the Leningrad bird against a black setup with e6 and d5, since it is hard to win.
  
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thibdb13
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Re: Bird's opening - which setup?
Reply #3 - 07/15/07 at 08:04:52
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Does someone here play the Leningrad Bird?
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Bird's opening - which setup?
Reply #2 - 07/10/07 at 13:40:12
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I've since more or less given up on the Bird, though I still bring it out from time to time.  I found that the reversed I-Z yielded White pretty good chances, if only because Black wasn't quite sure how to handle it.  I don't think the Bird is a bad opening, but it's primary advantage involves getting Black out of book much earlier and faster than more traditional openings.  Against strong and well-prepared opposition, White shouldn't expect too much, though I guess the opening also provides the opportunity for ensuring imbalances on the board...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Bird's opening - which setup?
Reply #1 - 07/08/07 at 23:39:59
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I play the Bird very flexible. Depending on the situation / opponent:
* Queen side fianchetto vs c5-d5-nc6 setups
* Antoshin - Big clamp
* Closed sicilian - Grand prix without Nc3
* Stonewall
* Leningrad (hyper accelerated, vs an early black d4. Then I often gambit the pawn on b4)
* Classical often with Nc3
  
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thibdb13
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Bird's opening - which setup?
07/08/07 at 16:29:25
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Continuing my inquiries on the Bird, I'd like to know which setup f4-players do prefer. (the choice is based on Taylor's book)
I'd like to try the Leningrad but I have the impression that this setup is more performant with black: In the Dutch, it is an ideal setup to get counterplay but in the Bird, you are a tempo up and it seems quite difficult to me to lead your opponent where you want him to go (or: much more difficult than in the dutch)
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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