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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Current Concensus on Modern Benoni (Read 25764 times)
flaviddude
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #18 - 08/21/07 at 23:36:05
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Markovich wrote on 08/21/07 at 14:43:19:
flaviddude wrote on 08/21/07 at 13:53:43:
I shall be writing three articles for "The Australian Correspondence Chess Quarterly on the piece blunder variation of the Taimonov Variation. I shall post them here.


1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e6 4. Nc3 exd 5. cxd d6 6. e4 g7 7. f4 Bg7 8. Bb5 Nbd7 9. e5 dxe 10.fxe Nh5 11.e6  Qh4 and now three variations

a) 12. g3 Ng3 13. Nf3 this line has become extinct in my opinion for very good resons. Nevertheless it should be analyed to show how black has at least a draw.

b) 12. g3 Ng3 13. hxg this is the old main line with games on this web site.

c) 12 Kd2 I have been examining this for a long time. I shall publish my analysis but it is so treacherous that there may be errors. I think that white is better but one slip and the wheels come off.



White is doing quite well with (b), isn't he?


This line is one which is critical. I think that I will analyze this line last as it has been covered well. Look at the game on the latest update, whereas the line with Kd2 has not been looked at in depth.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #17 - 08/21/07 at 14:43:19
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flaviddude wrote on 08/21/07 at 13:53:43:
I shall be writing three articles for "The Australian Correspondence Chess Quarterly on the piece blunder variation of the Taimonov Variation. I shall post them here.


1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e6 4. Nc3 exd 5. cxd d6 6. e4 g7 7. f4 Bg7 8. Bb5 Nbd7 9. e5 dxe 10.fxe Nh5 11.e6  Qh4 and now three variations

a) 12. g3 Ng3 13. Nf3 this line has become extinct in my opinion for very good resons. Nevertheless it should be analyed to show how black has at least a draw.

b) 12. g3 Ng3 13. hxg this is the old main line with games on this web site.

c) 12 Kd2 I have been examining this for a long time. I shall publish my analysis but it is so treacherous that there may be errors. I think that white is better but one slip and the wheels come off.



White is doing quite well with (b), isn't he?
  

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flaviddude
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #16 - 08/21/07 at 13:53:43
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I shall be writing three articles for "The Australian Correspondence Chess Quarterly on the piece blunder variation of the Taimonov Variation. I shall post them here.


1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e6 4. Nc3 exd 5. cxd d6 6. e4 g7 7. f4 Bg7 8. Bb5 Nbd7 9. e5 dxe 10.fxe Nh5 11.e6  Qh4 and now three variations

a) 12. g3 Ng3 13. Nf3 this line has become extinct in my opinion for very good resons. Nevertheless it should be analyed to show how black has at least a draw.

b) 12. g3 Ng3 13. hxg this is the old main line with games on this web site.

c) 12 Kd2 I have been examining this for a long time. I shall publish my analysis but it is so treacherous that there may be errors. I think that white is better but one slip and the wheels come off.
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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Bonsai
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #15 - 08/06/07 at 19:00:37
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lnn2 wrote on 08/06/07 at 16:39:19:
If i were a benoni player i would be most worried about the modern main line with h3/Bd3/Nf3...[...] in the MML. because if 9... b5 doesn't work then Black's position is just passive. [...]

Well, 9...b5 seems to work insofar as it is not losing, but there are no winning chances for black in the Bxb5 variation.
  
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #14 - 08/06/07 at 16:39:19
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If i were a benoni player i would be most worried about the modern main line with h3/Bd3/Nf3...
I can see how Black can attempt to muddle the waters in other lines like the Taimanov or Samisch (f3), but don't see how that will happen in the MML. because if 9... b5 doesn't work then Black's position is just passive. Emms (or was it Palliser ?!) covered the Davies plan with Qe7-Qf8 recently in a few very interesting games but i think White is  also better there.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #13 - 08/06/07 at 14:51:54
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Sacapawn wrote on 08/04/07 at 00:29:00:
That this is a difficult position for Black can be confirmed by a database search:

In my database there are 8 games with 13.-,b5 (6 White wins and 2 draws) and 12 games with 13.-gxf5 (7 White wins, 3 draws and 2 Black wins).

One of these games is annotated by John Emms and can be found in the chesspublishing archive (M Houska - D Tebb, 1-0). In ECO from 2001 there is a game Chiburdanidze-Kotsur, Luzern 1997, 1-0, with 13.-,gxf5 and the assessment "with compensation for the material" after White's 24th move.

Has John Watson written about this variation?



Frankly I'm surprised that White's result is so good after 13...b5, only in that I would've thought that the absence of the light-square bishop would help Black.  Shows what I know, I guess.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #12 - 08/06/07 at 13:00:51
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I just did an expanded search of the Modern Benoni positions arising from 11...Nc7.  It seems that White is just doing a bit better than average on first blush (about 58% when both opponents are rated over 2200), but a closer look reveals that White is virtually winning regardless of whether he plays 12.Bd3! 12.Bc4! or 12.Bxd7!?  (White tends to throw away most of his advantage with 12.Be2?/?! heading back into the Four Pawns Attack.)

12.Bxd7 Bxd7 13.f5 may be the most forcing variation of the bunch, but Black may as well take the pawn because refusing to do so is (statistically) even worse.  In other words, if Black insists on playing 11...Nc7, the best he can hope for is a pawn extra in an ugly defensive position.

Once again, I am not sure I'd allow White to play the Taimanov Benoni.  If Black plays 8...Nfd7, which I consider to be objectively the best but practically a lost cause, then he'd better hope for 9.Be2 leading back into A69, the old Four Pawns Attack.

I'm still itching to take that f-pawn though. Embarrassed
  
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #11 - 08/04/07 at 00:29:00
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That this is a difficult position for Black can be confirmed by a database search:

In my database there are 8 games with 13.-,b5 (6 White wins and 2 draws) and 12 games with 13.-gxf5 (7 White wins, 3 draws and 2 Black wins).

One of these games is annotated by John Emms and can be found in the chesspublishing archive (M Houska - D Tebb, 1-0). In ECO from 2001 there is a game Chiburdanidze-Kotsur, Luzern 1997, 1-0, with 13.-,gxf5 and the assessment "with compensation for the material" after White's 24th move.

Has John Watson written about this variation?

  
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Markovich
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #10 - 08/03/07 at 22:07:14
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/03/07 at 07:31:08:
13.f5 is new to me too.

I am a member of PawnSnatchers Anonymous , and my instinct is to take the offered pawn.  White no longer has a light squared Bishop, his pawn on d5 will soon have to be defended only by pieces, and Black will probably get at least partial control of the e-file. 

The cost is a weakened King-side.  I haven't run this through any engines or databases, but I'm itching to take the pawn and make White prove the advantage.


No, no, why risk your kingside that way?  You'll be crushed over there, or at best, you'll have to worry for a long time about your king.  Bonsai's active 12...b5 looks right.   I think Black may have chances to defend, since White is missing his light-square bishop.
  

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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #9 - 08/03/07 at 20:52:51
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/03/07 at 07:31:08:
13.f5 is new to me too.

I am a member of PawnSnatchers Anonymous , and my instinct is to take the offered pawn.  White no longer has a light squared Bishop, his pawn on d5 will soon have to be defended only by pieces, and Black will probably get at least partial control of the e-file.  

The cost is a weakened King-side.  I haven't run this through any engines or databases, but I'm itching to take the pawn and make White prove the advantage.


You want to do WHAT?!

I've played a few Modern Benonis in my time, and beaten a few good players with it, too.  I wouldn't be touching that pawn with a bargepole.

I don't really like the ...Na6 lines for Black though - I am a fan of Watson's recommended ...Qh4+ line against the Taimanov.  The problem is that White doesn't have to allow it and can instead play [1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+ Nfd7] 9.Nf3!? a6 10.Bd3, just allowing ...b5 and arguing that his development and central control are worth more than Black's queenside expansion.  It is, in my view, a fairly convincing, albeit very far from conclusive, argument.
  

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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #8 - 08/03/07 at 07:35:33
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In reply to Swiss_Dragon's 14.Bg5 I'd consider Qc8 instead of f6.  I don't know if that's an improvement.  I was more worried about Ng5 ideas, which still are in the air.  I'd like to see (and work out) some concrete lines.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #7 - 08/03/07 at 07:31:08
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13.f5 is new to me too.

I am a member of PawnSnatchers Anonymous , and my instinct is to take the offered pawn.  White no longer has a light squared Bishop, his pawn on d5 will soon have to be defended only by pieces, and Black will probably get at least partial control of the e-file.  

The cost is a weakened King-side.  I haven't run this through any engines or databases, but I'm itching to take the pawn and make White prove the advantage.
  
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #6 - 08/03/07 at 06:46:46
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Swiss_Dragon wrote on 07/26/07 at 14:01:49:
Bonsai, if you think that the Taimanov is overrated and play 8..Nfd7  10..Nac6 11..Nc7, then you must certainly have something against 12.Bxd7 Bxd7 13.f5 in hand. Isn't Black suffering a lot? I mean after 13..gxf5 14.Bg5 f6 15.Bf4 the "Benoni bishop" is burried and it's hard to see how Black is getting out of the mess here.  Sad

I've never seen the line played, but I think it actually looks very sensible for white.

Since I don't really know it, I am not entirely sure, but in this position after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+ Nfd7 9.a4 0-0 10.Nf3 Na6 11.0-0 Nc7 12.Bxd7 Bxd7 13.f5
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rxxqxrkx%2Fppnbxpbp%2Fxxx...
it doesn't look very tempting to me to play 13...gxf5. Why not 13...b5? Presumably the white plan would still be 14.Bg5, but playing 14...f6 15.Bf4 looks vaguely alright for black, at least one can wait for the right moment with playing gxf5...

Still, I admit I am not ecstatic about this position for black.
  
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #5 - 07/26/07 at 14:01:49
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Bonsai, if you think that the Taimanov is overrated and play 8..Nfd7  10..Nac6 11..Nc7, then you must certainly have something against 12.Bxd7 Bxd7 13.f5 in hand. Isn't Black suffering a lot? I mean after 13..gxf5 14.Bg5 f6 15.Bf4 the "Benoni bishop" is burried and it's hard to see how Black is getting out of the mess here.  Sad
  
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Re: Current Concensus on Modern Benoni
Reply #4 - 07/19/07 at 04:42:37
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I don't know if the Modern Benoni (after White plays 3.Nf3) is quite good enough for the very best players in the world anymore, but it still has quite a zing below about 2400 elo.

I have stated elsewhere that White has too many good choices besides the ultra-sharp Taimanov line.  However, in each variation, White has to play excellent chess to demonstrate the advantage.  This is hard to do for the amateur, but completely expected for the professional.  (By amateur here, I mean someone who plays the chess as a part-time hobby rather than as a full-time occupation.)
  
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