sssthepro wrote on 10/27/07 at 06:23:07:


I don't think anyone can give a recipe for "how to win"; I suppose you remember this thread, though http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1182467733 .  I think your idea of a quick e5 deserves attention (it was played by one GM that I recall, though he ended up losing).  A slower preparation of e5 could involve the idea that e5, if it comes (with White having played f4 and Black ...f6), should lead to greater exposure of Black's king.

I'm avoiding the taimanov attach with the move order 1. d4 e6 2. c4 c5
e.g. 3. d5 exd5 4. cxd5 d6 5. Nc3 g6 6. e4 Bg7 7. f4 a6 8. a4 Nf6 and we have reached the 4 pawn attack of the KID which is playable for black (black has an extra tempo compared to the taimanov attack).
The downside of this move order is that around 10 % of the white players play 2. e4.
The best move for black is of course d5, transposing to the french. Black can also try c5, hoping for Nf3 and transposing to the sicilian, but white can play d5 transposing to the franco-benoni and that is not much fun for black.
From a practical point of view, the 1. .. e6 move order is worth a try. You can then also avoid the modern main line with Ne7 instead of Nf6, but I would not recommend that.

kylemeister wrote on 09/16/07 at 18:05:50:


...and (c) myself  

Smyslov_Fan,
What do u have in mind?

Word of Warning

(From someone who thought this might be an easy way to get away from some of the deeply theoretical lines of the Modern Benoni):

The Franco-Benoni is just bad.  Even bad openings can have nice names.  In this case, White has all the fun.  I now only play it as White and have a perfect score in slow time controls.  This isn't a Schmidt Benoni or some almost playable line.  This line is completely busted and should rightly be considered a blunder.  (Oh yeah, some people have argued that a blunder is only a move that loses outright.  This comes very close to losing by force.)

o.k., looked up some games, the critical continuation is e4 e6 d4 c5 d5!
in these symmetrical positions black is just cramped without much counterplay,
but for someone playing french could be quite a good move order, he is more flexible with the knight ...

The Averbakh KID (with Black playing ...c5) does transpose into the Benoni, but only with the collusion of both players.  Many of the most interesting lines don't transpose.

Quote:



1.  Indeed, that sort of Four Pawns can be reached through either the Benoni or KID, but you seem to be lumping it together with the "Flick-Knife Attack," which is considered more promising for White, and can only be reached via the Benoni.

2.  It's not that simple, since after 6...c5 White can (and probably should) play 7. 0-0.  Then one line is  7...Nc6 8. d5 Na5, when you might say we have a Benoni-ish position, but it's considered better for White than the position after 7. d5.

Markovich wrote on 08/21/07 at 14:43:19:


This line is one which is critical. I think that I will analyze this line last as it has been covered well. Look at the game on the latest update, whereas the line with Kd2 has not been looked at in depth.

I shall be writing three articles for "The Australian Correspondence Chess Quarterly on the piece blunder variation of the Taimonov Variation. I shall post them here.


1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e6 4. Nc3 exd 5. cxd d6 6. e4 g7 7. f4 Bg7 8. Bb5 Nbd7 9. e5 dxe 10.fxe Nh5 11.e6  Qh4 and now three variations

a) 12. g3 Ng3 13. Nf3 this line has become extinct in my opinion for very good resons. Nevertheless it should be analyed to show how black has at least a draw.

b) 12. g3 Ng3 13. hxg this is the old main line with games on this web site.

c) 12 Kd2 I have been examining this for a long time. I shall publish my analysis but it is so treacherous that there may be errors. I think that white is better but one slip and the wheels come off.

If i were a benoni player i would be most worried about the modern main line with h3/Bd3/Nf3...
I can see how Black can attempt to muddle the waters in other lines like the Taimanov or Samisch (f3), but don't see how that will happen in the MML. because if 9... b5 doesn't work then Black's position is just passive. Emms (or was it Palliser ?!) covered the Davies plan with Qe7-Qf8 recently in a few very interesting games but i think White is  also better there.

I just did an expanded search of the Modern Benoni positions arising from 11...Nc7.  It seems that White is just doing a bit better than average on first blush (about 58% when both opponents are rated over 2200), but a closer look reveals that White is virtually winning regardless of whether he plays 12.Bd3! 12.Bc4! or 12.Bxd7!?  (White tends to throw away most of his advantage with 12.Be2?/?! heading back into the Four Pawns Attack.)

12.Bxd7 Bxd7 13.f5 may be the most forcing variation of the bunch, but Black may as well take the pawn because refusing to do so is (statistically) even worse.  In other words, if Black insists on playing 11...Nc7, the best he can hope for is a pawn extra in an ugly defensive position.

Once again, I am not sure I'd allow White to play the Taimanov Benoni.  If Black plays 8...Nfd7, which I consider to be objectively the best but practically a lost cause, then he'd better hope for 9.Be2 leading back into A69, the old Four Pawns Attack.

I'm still itching to take that f-pawn though.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/03/07 at 07:31:08:


No, no, why risk your kingside that way?  You'll be crushed over there, or at best, you'll have to worry for a long time about your king.  Bonsai's active 12...b5 looks right.   I think Black may have chances to defend, since White is missing his light-square bishop.

In reply to Swiss_Dragon's 14.Bg5 I'd consider Qc8 instead of f6.  I don't know if that's an improvement.  I was more worried about Ng5 ideas, which still are in the air.  I'd like to see (and work out) some concrete lines.

Swiss_Dragon wrote on 07/26/07 at 14:01:49:

I've never seen the line played, but I think it actually looks very sensible for white.

Since I don't really know it, I am not entirely sure, but in this position after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+ Nfd7 9.a4 0-0 10.Nf3 Na6 11.0-0 Nc7 12.Bxd7 Bxd7 13.f5
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rxxqxrkx%2Fppnbxpbp%2Fxxx...
it doesn't look very tempting to me to play 13...gxf5. Why not 13...b5? Presumably the white plan would still be 14.Bg5, but playing 14...f6 15.Bf4 looks vaguely alright for black, at least one can wait for the right moment with playing gxf5...

Still, I admit I am not ecstatic about this position for black.

I don't know if the Modern Benoni (after White plays 3.Nf3) is quite good enough for the very best players in the world anymore, but it still has quite a zing below about 2400 elo.

I have stated elsewhere that White has too many good choices besides the ultra-sharp Taimanov line.  However, in each variation, White has to play excellent chess to demonstrate the advantage.  This is hard to do for the amateur, but completely expected for the professional.  (By amateur here, I mean someone who plays the chess as a part-time hobby rather than as a full-time occupation.)

MNb wrote on 07/17/07 at 01:31:04:

I've always been feeling that the Taimanov is overrated, it's not like there's a definite advantage for whtie (as far as I know) and black has a clear plan in the 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+ Nfd7 9.a4 0-0 10.Nf3 line, namely 10...Na6, 11...Nc7, 12....a6 and then Rb8 followed ideally by b5 - usually even if white has played a5 (of course one might have to adjust to what white does). Alternatively the 8...Nbd7 line is far from refuted and probably a most reasonable over-the-board attempt (while somewhat unsuitable for correspondence chess, because with truly precise play only 1-0 or 1/2-1/2 are possible results, where I believe the latter to be "objectively" the "correct" outcome).

There are some other variations though, that deserve very serious attention, the Modern Main Line is a serious try for an advantage for white and black may have to play some slightly unimpressive a6+Nbd7+Qe7 variation to avoid having no winning chances in some of the extremely forced main-main-line variations with an early b5 (not that objectively black is in danger of loosing there, in my opinion). Note that Watson's recommended Nbd7+Nh5 systems is supposedly in a bit of trouble.

Then there's various Bf4 systems, which are extremely tricky move order wise, which are fully viable and theoretically good tries for white. I've had a bit of trouble there when playing black, but I believe that's more due to my unfamiliarity with the true subtleties of these systems than due to black being worse.

I suppose one of the downsides of the Modern Benoni has to be that any number of other lines are also most reasonable tries by white, for example the Sämisch-f3 variation is extremely solid, the Classical main line is also fully viable, even if not that challenging for black, and that Bd3+Nge2 system is also interesting. Did I forget something? Oh, the fianchetto system and the knight-tour variation, which I do not really get to see often, but of course they are certainly not wrong, either.

I heard that the modern benoni isn't widely played at the top level anymore (mainly due to the Taimanov variation). 

If I start learning the modern benoni as my d4 defense, should I try to avoid the Taimanov, or is it still an OK game for black?