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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3 (Read 10755 times)
Chessguy
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Re: Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3
Reply #8 - 07/26/07 at 22:02:12
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MNb, when a person asks for someone to supply database info, I think it is obvious that it useful to know which database. I am not suggesting that your database is bad.

Anyway I think we can agree that actual analysis on that position is the most telling and not the statistics on its own. To me it however seems that the usual lines for white scores better against the Budapest gambit thats all.
  
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MNb
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Re: Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3
Reply #7 - 07/26/07 at 21:35:34
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And with this knowledge you can rate the quality of my statistics? Very clever.
It is quite simple: I have 8 games, you have 20 games after 8.Be2, so your statistics are more reliable than mine, provided that you have not added a lot of kids or computer games.
Not the title of my database (or yours) is relevant. What really is relevant, is that I did a search on the position after 8.Be2, so transpositions a priori were included.
But first of all I think statistics only very rarely can give definite conclusions. The last word is always to concrete analysis. So my conclusion is: I don't know if 5.Nh3 is scary or not. It seems a good idea though to analyse 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Nf4 0-0 8.Be2 before chosing 5...g6.
  

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Chessguy
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Re: Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3
Reply #6 - 07/26/07 at 19:26:56
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Its useful to know the database source to assess the quality of the statistics more seriously. I myself use Mega Database 2007 and got different statistics. After 8 Be2 I found 20 games. It seems the number of games may differ when moving back and forth in the variation tree, because of transpositions. The score at just this stage is 52,5 % for white. I don't think 5 Nh3 is too scary for black. Thats my current opinion.
  
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MNb
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Re: Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3
Reply #5 - 07/26/07 at 01:58:02
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Big Database 2000 expanded with everything I could find since then; in total about 3 million games. I am not sure, why this knowledge should be useful though.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Chessguy
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Re: Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3
Reply #4 - 07/25/07 at 21:30:24
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It would be useful to know what database MNb extracted this statistics from.
  
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MNb
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Re: Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3
Reply #3 - 07/25/07 at 21:08:02
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1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.e3 Nxe5 5.Nh3 (68%, 308 games)
a) 5...d6 (75%, 40 games)
b) 5...Nbc6 (64%, 39 games)
c) 5...Ng6 (63%, 45 games)
d) 5...Bc5 (76%, 38 games)
e) 5...Bb4+ (76%, 97 games)

Something you might find interesting:
f) 5...g6 (44%, 33 games)
But before you get excited: 6.Nc3 Bg7 7.Nf4 0-0 8.Be2 (in some move order) saw 3 wins for White, 5 draws and 0 wins for Black.

Maybe Black can play something experimental: 4.e3 Bb4+ 5.Bd2 Bxd2+ 6.Qxd2 Nxe5 (Qe7!?) 7.Nh3 Ng6 8.f4 (8.g3!? 8.Nc3) f5 9.e4 fxe4 10.Nc3 0-0.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Udav18
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Re: Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3
Reply #2 - 07/25/07 at 15:27:14
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Of course it is a save way for white to play against the Bpg,but it is definitely not winning and black have to be able to play against it.
Ok lets beginn to find out the truth by just looking at a database:Where did black get the best results?
Unfortunately i dont have a database ,can anybody tell me what the database says?
  
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alumbrado
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Re: Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3
Reply #1 - 07/24/07 at 19:48:02
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Not sure how Black should handle that, really - it always looked like a nice safe way for White to play when I saw it in Burgess and Pedersen's Beating the Indian Defences - a lot of years back now, more than I care to remember!
  

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Udav18
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Budapest Gambit with 4.e3 +Nh3
07/24/07 at 11:04:57
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Hi, I play the Bpg with black for about 4,5 years now.I do not have any problems with black against any variation excepting the 4.e3 + Nh3 Variation.
Ok, I must admit ,that I have never spent any time to analyze it properly.
But I dont know really how to play against it,what plan should black have in this variation?
  
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