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Normal Topic Nc3 (allowing ...Nxc3) in the Alapin (Read 2514 times)
chk
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Re: Nc3 (allowing ...Nxc3) in the Alapin
Reply #2 - 08/04/07 at 09:23:10
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iirc in Galagher's Beating the Anti-Sics book there is a comment on Nc3 Nxc3, bxc3 Qc7, Bd2 (in the lines of what Ptero says above). The Bishop on c1 usually belongs to f4, so it looks like Black has won something by 'forcing' Bd2.
  

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Ptero
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Re: Nc3 (allowing ...Nxc3) in the Alapin
Reply #1 - 08/03/07 at 04:38:07
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http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rnbqkb1r/pp3ppp/3pp3/3nP3...

Bonsai: I've been following Delchev/Semkov same as you and the above variation with Nc3 (via various move orders) was played a gazillion times against me in online games. I always reply 7...Nxc3 8.bxc3 Qc7 (I think this is more annoying than 8...Nd7) and now usually comes 9.Bd2 Nd7 10.exd6 Bxd6 11.Bd3 b6 10.0-0 Bb7 and black is doing fine I think. IMHO 7.Nc3 is slightly inaccurate.
  
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Bonsai
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Nc3 (allowing ...Nxc3) in the Alapin
08/02/07 at 21:07:53
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This is about an observation I've made about some Alapin variations I've played as black. In particular I've been playing the Semkov/Delchev recommendations quite a lot in Internet games. While they hardly ever consider Nc3 (presumably because they believe it to be besides the point in these positions?!), it does seem to occur a lot in practice. I suppose white's idea is to stabilise his  centre so that the pawn d4 is well protected and provides some cover for Bd3. On the other hand white will usually swap of his e5 pawn.

I'm sort of interested in what the downsides of that is, I suppose I should show some practical examples, so I've sifted through my Internet games... I guess I don't think this is really wrong for white, but I'd like to hear some comments and I'd be interested in any strategical insights about the resulting positions (very often white had pawns on c3+d4).

The most common occurence is after the moves
1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 Nf6 4.e5 Nd5 5.cxd4 e6 6.Nc3 Here I've played two different things.
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rnbqkbxr%2Fppxpxppp%2Fxxx...
A.
6...Nxc3 7.bxc3 d6 8.exd6 (8.Nf3 Nd7 9.Bb5 Qa5 was another game, when white's reaction of 10.Bxd7+ Bxd7 11.Bb2 was pretty wrong, but 8.Nf3 also seems viable. Much worse was 8.Bb2 Nd7 9.exd6 Bxd6 10.Nf3 b6 11.Be2 Bb7 12.0-0 0-0 13.h3 Rc8 14.Rc1 Nf6  in another game, white's played seemed quite silly, really.) 8...Bxd6 9.Nf3 Nd7 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 Bb7 was what I tried in one game
B.
I've also played 6...Bb4 7.Bd2 Qa5 three times, but this actually seems wrong due to 8.a3, but none of my opponent played that: 8.Qc2 Nc6 9.Nf3 d6 10.exd6 Bxd6 11.Nb5 Bb4 12.Nd6+ Ke7 13.Nc4 Bxd2+ was fine for black Even after 8.Nxd5 Bxd2+ 9.Qxd2 white is somewhat better, best for black is probably 8...Qxd5, which played once, but my move in another 8...Bxd2+ was completely wrong and white was much better.


Another common example is 1.e4 c5 2.c3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nf3 e6 6.cxd4 d6 7.Nc3, when I've also once more reacted with two moves:
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rnbqkbxr%2Fppxxxppp%2Fxxx...
A.
7...Nxc3 8.bxc3 Nd7 Here one opponent tried 9.exd6 Bxd6 10.Bd3 0-0, which actually looks quite alright for white, as long as if he does not now try the unsound sacrifice 11.Bxh7+ as in that game.
The right rection to 9.Bf4 would - or so I guess - have been ...Qc7, but even so white seems to be alright.

B.
In another game I got a not particularly exciting position by 7...dxe5 8.Nxe5 Bb4 9.Bd2

In fact this same variation also occured another two times with the swap exd6 inserted: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c3 Nf6 4.e5 Nd5 5.d4 cxd4 6.cxd4 d6 7.exd6 Bxd6 8.Nc3
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rnbqkxxr%2Fppxxxppp%2Fxxx...
Both times I replied 8...Nxc3 9.bxc3.

A.
Then once 9...0-0 10.Bd3 h6, which was probably unnecessarily passive, but white got it a bit wrong with 11.Bd2 Nc6 12.Qe2 e5!.

B.
The other time I played 9...Bd7 10.Bd3 Bc6 11.0-0 on the other occasion, which also seems sort of alright for black.


A case where I definitely got quite nice play against white's hanging pawns was after 1.e4 c5 2.c3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 e6 5.Nf3 cxd4 6.cxd4 d6 7.a3 Bd7 8.Bd3 Bc6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.Qe2 Be7 11.Nc3
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rxxqkxxr%2Fppxnbppp%2Fxxb...
[/b]11...Nxc3 12.bxc3 dxe5 13.Nxe5 Nxe5 14.Qxe5 0-0 15.Qh5 g6 16.Qh3 Rc8[/b], when I definitely liked black's position.

A clearly related example is 1.e4 c5 2.c3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nf3 e6 6.cxd4 d6 7.a3 Bd7 8.Bd3 Bc6 9.0-0 Nd7 10.exd6 Bxd6 11.Nc3
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rxxqkxxr%2Fppxnxppp%2Fxxb...
when the game continuation wasn't particulary revealing, also similar was 1.e4 c5 2.c3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nf3 e6 6.cxd4 d6 7.a3 Bd7 8.Bd2 Bc6 9.Nc3
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rnxqkbxr%2Fppxxxppp%2Fxxb...
Nd7 10.Bd3 dxe5 11.dxe5, when black doesn't have any problems, but no advantage either.

In very similar position - namely 1.e4 c5 2.c3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nf3 e6 6.cxd4 d6 7.a3 Bd7 8.Nc3
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rnxqkbxr%2Fppxbxppp%2Fxxx...
after [/b]8...Nxc3 9.bxc3 Nc6[/b] white really should have played 10.exd6, but instead lost a pawn after 10.Bb5 Nxe5.


Yet another game started with 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c3 Nf6 4.e5 Nd5 5.d4 cxd4 6.cxd4 d6 7.exd6 Bxd6 8.Bd3 Nc6 9.0-0 0-0 10.Nc3, when quite honestly the rest of the game was a nonsensical blitz game that I won after 17 moves...
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rxbqxrkx%2Fppxxxppp%2Fxxn...


A compltely different case is 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 Nf6 4.e5 Nd5 5.d4 cxd4 6.cxd4 d6 7.exd6 Qxd6 8.Nc3
http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=rxbxkbxr%2Fppxxpppp%2Fxxn...
When [b]8...Bg4 9.Nb5?[b] could have been easily refuted by 9...Qe6+ (but black doesn't have any problems anyway). Of course white doesn't have to play 9.Nb5, at all.
  
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