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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence (Read 6525 times)
MNb
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #15 - 09/19/07 at 04:15:36
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Yeah, especially if Kramnik would have chosen 6...0-0 - then we would have had something to chew about, instead of that old Tartakower/Hromadka etcetera stuff.
  

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TopNotch
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #14 - 09/18/07 at 23:34:41
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Prince-Nez wrote on 09/18/07 at 22:59:14:
HgMan wrote on 09/18/07 at 22:10:34:
I see this is what Leko tried against Kramnik today...



And got absolutely nothing...of course.   Sad


Perhaps he should have tried the Kings Gambit and ensured a decisive result. Wink

If only Short had qualified instead of Leko, there would have been a chance for 'f pawn forward' as Paul Motwani was fond of saying.

Toppy Smiley   
  

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Prince-Nez
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #13 - 09/18/07 at 22:59:14
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HgMan wrote on 09/18/07 at 22:10:34:
I see this is what Leko tried against Kramnik today...



And got absolutely nothing...of course.   Sad
  

We work in the dark - we do what we can - we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art. &&~ Henry James
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HgMan
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #12 - 09/18/07 at 22:10:34
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I see this is what Leko tried against Kramnik today...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #11 - 09/18/07 at 11:41:13
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[quote author=MNb link=1189773873/0#2 date=1189804659]2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 Bc5 4.Nc3 (4.Nf3 d6 is a boring symmetrical variation) Nc6 5.f4 d6 (Ng4 6.f5!) 6.Nf3 is a King's Gambit Declined. According to Marin, Davies and TopNotch this is equal. According to most KGeers White may prove +=.[/quote]

It's also possible to maintain the independant status of the opening with 5. Ktge2 d6 ; 6. 0-0 0-0 ; 7. Kh1 intending h3 and f4.
  
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MNb
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #10 - 09/17/07 at 22:31:37
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For lazy people the Giuoco Pianissimo or Modern Italian is excellent. So the only question remains: Petrov (2.Nf3) or King's Gambit Declined (2.Bc4). The latter requires some detailed preparation, as play can become very tactical very quickly. Don't forget 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 c6 either; 4.Nf3 is probably best.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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cyronix
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #9 - 09/17/07 at 14:57:27
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Concerning my strength: ELO: 2085, but I am better if I get out of the opening, I also drew an IM yesterday.

I would describe my strength like this:
Openings: 1700.
Positional Understanding & Endgame: 2100
Tactics: 2400

Looking at games in the KG, I am not anymore impressed by it,
indeed you have committed yourself to f4 too early, black being much more flexible can adapt very good to your setup, that is why I will go for the bishop game with nf3 in most variations.

The more I think what it is that really good players prefer Nf3 over Bc4 and why it is better, I come to the conclusion that it is actually flexibility, the knight has to be moved to Nf3 in almost all cases,
but the bishop could stand well on e2, d3, c4, b5 ... actually you commited yourself too early to c4 with the bishop ... but I will chose the BG now ... I see many GM's playing it and also winning against 2600 opposition ... although I'm not too sure if it is regularly played by them or only a surprise weapon ...
I have to investigate in this opening ... what makes me chose the BG is my current lazyness for theory and my state of being disillusionend by the petroff games I saw so far and also played myself 2 times otb ... well 1. ... e5 is just no sicilian Smiley ... but Bc4 still gives me interesting games ... it's not as good as e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5, but not as boring as e4 e5 Nf3 Nf6 ...

btw, on openings, I come more & more to the conclusion that opening books are almost useless, only good for a brief intro into an opening ... fritz powerbook and megabase are a much better opening guide ...
  
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MNb
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #8 - 09/16/07 at 20:16:25
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Quote:
you can still be manoeuvered in the petroff, and against the petroff I tried to play the 'sharp' variation with Nc3 and 0-0-0 and do not think it's giving you real winning chances, I think even shirov stated that black could build up with Be6 and Qd7 and 0-0-0 and then there is really nothing


While Kylemeister's remark in itself is more or less correct, it is not very helpful either as long as Kirjakov, TN and he don't tell you how to play the line in case. A couple of weeks ago I asked Dutch IM Van Delft the very same question on the Petrov. He answered something like  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Be3 Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 (h6!? first) 9.Ng5 and White gets the pair of bishops.
For one thing: at 1700 level (which is only slightly less than mine) there is no best choice. Just play what feels best.
  

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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #7 - 09/16/07 at 18:35:08
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kylemeister wrote on 09/16/07 at 18:14:59:
Cyronix, one thing your postings put me in mind of is something Petr Kiriakov (a Russian GM) said to a student (rated about 1700) who had just proclaimed some position/variation as drawish:  "At your level, nothing is drawish unless there are just two kings on the board.  You shouldn't worry about anything being drawish until you are about 2200."


Nice quote, and perfectly correct in my opinion.

Toppy Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #6 - 09/16/07 at 18:14:59
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Cyronix, one thing your postings put me in mind of is something Petr Kiriakov (a Russian GM) said to a student (rated about 1700) who had just proclaimed some position/variation as drawish:  "At your level, nothing is drawish unless there are just two kings on the board.  You shouldn't worry about anything being drawish until you are about 2200."
  
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cyronix
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #5 - 09/16/07 at 16:20:56
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You are right Na5 is really good, you know very much on theory,
I am still quite new to the e4 complex, but I think the BG and KG could the best choice against e5 ...
(played the scotch and I think black gets very good compensation and you can still be manoeuvered in the petroff, and against the petroff I tried to play the 'sharp' variation with Nc3 and 0-0-0 and do not think it's giving you real winning chances, I think even shirov stated that black could build up with Be6 and Qd7 and 0-0-0 and then there is really nothing, but also in the mainvariations, Be3 and Bf4 and 0-0 by black you have almost nothing, and judging from the boring games in the normal ruy lopez and petroff that I regularly see on top level games, I will never bother to play and learn these openings).
  
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MNb
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #4 - 09/15/07 at 20:52:55
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After 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 Nc6 4.Nc3 (4.f4 d5!) Na5 (Steinitz) I don't think Emms recommends an early f2-f4. Several authors have tried to prove something for White in this variation, but I am not convinced.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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cyronix
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #3 - 09/15/07 at 07:09:51
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John Emms has the Bishop's Opening covered in "attacking with e4",
but he choses to play this a bit more aggressive, with a later f4, if possible,
but I read from a Grandmaster (Kindermann I believe), that he thinks Nf3 instead of f4 is better,
personally I think the Emms way is better, I don't think you have that much with Nf3,
but if you like the normal Ruy Lopez, you could also like Nf3.
  
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MNb
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #2 - 09/14/07 at 21:17:39
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While 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 c6 (Paulsen) 4.Nf3 (probably best) d5/d6 is an important variation of the Bishop Opening indeed, TN might have been a little more helpful. The two other main lines are:
2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 Nc6 4.Nf3 (4.Nc3 Na5! Steinitz) Bc5 (h6; Be7;) 5.c3 a6/d6; is Modern Italian or Giuoco Pianissimo;
2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 Bc5 4.Nc3 (4.Nf3 d6 is a boring symmetrical variation) Nc6 5.f4 d6 (Ng4 6.f5!) 6.Nf3 is a King's Gambit Declined. According to Marin, Davies and TopNotch this is equal. According to most KGeers White may prove +=.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: Bishop Opening against Petroff Defence
Reply #1 - 09/14/07 at 16:18:35
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e2e4 wrote on 09/14/07 at 12:44:32:
Salut,

is the Bishop Opening a good alternative to avoid the Petroff Defence? What are the most critical lines for that?

Regards


Yes its a good alternative.

The critical line is Nf6 c6 d5.

Cheers,

Toppy Smiley



  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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