fdunne wrote on 07/18/17 at 08:38:08:

If you wanted more active counterplay, there are options like 11...Rb8 (playing with b5 ideas) 12.b4 d5, and an open fight begins. But it is just a matter of taste, you've played pretty well until move 27 or so. I guess your opponent was already a bit frustrated that he has achieved so little from the opening...

After 27.Rgf2 we have a balanced situation. White has pressure on the kingside, Black a solid position - and counterplay on the queenside! You may not have felt it during the game, but 27...f6! 28.g4 a5! shows clearly the dangers for White: the open a-file belongs to Black. - The way you played, 27...Rf6? followed by Rcc6?, your natural counterplay is gone, and you are quickly sliding into a lost position.

Maybe 14. ... Nh7 was an idea worth thinking about, with Ng5 in mind to either open the h-file or trade the knights on a different square than d4.

If you want counterplay in such a position, I don't think that playing the most straightforward moves (like Nb8-c6-e4) amount to that much!

I'm interested to see what's proposed in this thread, because I haven't found a solution I'm 100% happy with either. That being said, I've only faced this move order once, in the following rather unpleasant game:



Obviously I didn't play so well, but it was rather concerning that I couldn't find an ounce of counterplay the whole game...

An alternative option for Black is 1Nf3 Nf6 2 c4 Nc6.

However Black just be willing to play
Zurich variation vs Qc2 Nimzo
Nc6 vs Nf3 Nimzo (where White best  reply is Qc2 since neither g3 or Bg5 are good)
Bogo Indian Bd2 Qe7 by transposing
Tango with a3
Reversed sicilian

This thread was linked  from a recent Nimzo thread

I can't answer your question, but in his new repertoire book Kaufman says this line seems slightly better for White than a Nimzo because Black gets less compensation for the loss of the bishop pair. His main game is Vallejo Pons - Almasi, Nakhchivan 2011. But his main recommendation is 1.d4 and the Nimzo with 4.Qc2.

I actually have the English version of that book (translated). It's not very in depth, as the title suggests, but it does explain many of the key ideas and even covers the Nimzo-English. I would give it 4/5. It's definitely not bad,

Agree with watson that far too much omitted from the Chess Explained English book. A poor job frankly. Dont recommend it.

Willempie wrote on 10/30/07 at 08:35:51:


John Watson was quite negative to the book on the chess.fm show. The main issue was that too many important lines were completely missing.

I can't say I know it that well, but dxc4 (after Bd3) and b5 seem to be only to win tempos and gain some initiative. Anyway, I've decided to primarily stick with the NID/QID and NIED against Nf3. Thanks for your help!

Quote:


Well, I think I'm closer to Walter Browne because I always try to play for the full point and want a sound, dynamic and initiative seeking defense. I'm not happy with little space unless I feel that I have great active play to compensate or many possible pawn breaks. I don't feel this way in the hedgehog. It often seems like Black is just shuffling around waiting for White to make a mistake but if that doesn't happen, it's not pretty. I play the Najdorf vs e4, Nimzo/QID vs d4, Nimzo-English vs Nf3 and e5 vs c4. One thing that's confusing me recently is the Semi-Slav. In many ways, it is more in style with the Najdorf and e5 vs the English than the NID/QID/NIED. It seems to give White fewer choices and seek initiative more quickly on the queenside with b5 (like in the Najdorf). On the other hand, it may have less room for creativity as I've seen theory run basically up to an equal endgame after massive exchanges. Which do you think would suit me better?

I couldn't help but notice that your opening repertoire was similar to that of Mickey Adams. I don't know if this will help but he has often in the past forced a hedgehog positoin with 1 nf3 nf6 2c4 e6 3 nc3 c5 !?- I don't know if that would fit into your plans............

Ivanchuk has won some nice games recently including one in a rapid v Kramnik with 3 ...bb4- personally- i always think this is slightly better for white but nothing terrifying.

exigentsky wrote on 10/25/07 at 22:30:06:



No (or, yes), it's 10. e3.  Adams indeed played 10...e5, after which 11. h3 Be6 12. Kh2 was supposedly += (eventually drawn, by the way).

ECO and NCO both like White (slightly) after 4. Qb3 a5, based on the course of Piket-Nikolic, Dutch championship 1998:  5. g3 b6 6. Bg2 Bb7 7. 0-0 0-0 8. d3 Na6 9. e4 Nc5 10. Qc2 Bxc3 11. Qxc3 d5 12. e5.

On 4. Qb3 c5, they both follow Kramnik-Illescas, Yerevan olympiad 1996:  5. g3 Nc6 6. Bg2 0-0 7. 0-0 Qe7 8. d3 h6 9. a3 Ba5 10. e3 Rd8 11. Qc2.  Now ECO thinks 11...d5 is equal, while NCO just thinks it is "interesting."

Another branch is 5. a3 in the above line.  After 5...Ba5 6. g3 Nc6 7. Bg2 0-0 8. 0-0 d5 9. d3, NCO thinks that both 9...h6 and 9...d4 lead to a slight advantage for White, while ECO thinks they both lead to equality.  Ah, duelling opening books.


As to what I play, I could say "nothing," since I haven't played in a tournament in a while.  I am/was generally a KID player, which does simplify things.  Though I sometimes answered 1. Nf3 with 1...c5 or even occasionally 1...d5, as the spirit moved me.

Thanks a lot for all that information! It was really helpful.

10. e3 did poorly in my database after e5 so I thought it wasn't the main move. Are you sure you don't mean 9. e3, so that d4 can be played in one move?  After 9. e3, Black would again play e5 which is a key move throughout the variation. It takes advantage of White not having played d4. I can't see Black really being worse but again, it's all about variations. Regarding 4. Qb3, I'm not sure why c5 isn't doing so well statistically. It might just be the sample size, but Black wins 66% after a5 from 16 games at the 2525+ level. I guess part of the reason is that White can't play b4 as easily. Any ideas and variations? g4 is very interesting and sharp but after h6 I don't think black is objectively worse. He just has to absorb some initiative and that's not always easy. In any case, what do you play vs Nf3? I really envy Semi-Slav and KID players sometimes. It's so easy to meet c4 and Nf3.

Some background (skip if bored):

I am primarily a Nimzo and Queen's Indian player and I'm trying to find a good response to  White's transpsitional monster, 1. Nf3. I've considered the Symmetrical English but ultimately, it is not to my taste. Thus, I have to start 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6. I've considered 2. ...b6 which is very interesting but White can move into g3 lines and force me either into a Hedgehog or a Classical Queen's Indian, both of which are not my favorite. I play the Ba6 Queen's Indian and while the Classical is certainly good too, I don't want to let Nf3 players move order me out of my best line. Now 3. Nc3 is the critical move. Learning a complex opening like the Semi-Slav is out of the question and given the rarity of this move order, I would probably face it too few times to be good in it. I would have to play the Semi-Slav instead of the QID too. Outside of the QGD which is also not usually to my taste, there is the Ragozin. It follows with 3. ...d5 4. d4 Bb4. It is much like the Nimzo except that d5 is premature as White can always play cxd5, undoubling the pawns if Black takes on c3. Maybe this is too simplistic, but I think no one would claim that the Nimzo's flexibility is preferred and usually c5 is played. It seems to me like this is a good opening, but again, I would give an advantage to the Nf3 player. So what is my choice? Only the Nimzo-English remains. It meets 3. Nc3 with Bb4. This is much closer to my normal repertoire and more flexible than the Ragozin. It is odd at first glance, but in my research it is actually no worse than the normal Nimzo. d4 is a very useful move for White, gaining control of the center, helping development and setting up threats. Without d4, Black has a free hand in the center and easy development. The immediate a3 is not to be feared as results have shown, Black does very well after Bxc3 bxc3 c5!. If dxc3, h6 seems like a flexible but useful move, preventing Bg5. The most serious try is Qc2 or Qb3.

Thus, here is my main question, what is the status of this line? The Nimzo-English with Qc2 (by far the most popular) or Qb3? Do you consider it worse than the Nimzo and if so, why? Please explain and provide variations if possible. Here is my main variation: 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Qc2 c5 (d6, b6 and O-O are also interesting) 5. a3 Ba5! 6. g3 Nc6 (or O-O/d5) 7. Bg2 O-O 8. O-O d6 9. d3 h6 10. Rb1 e5. Like the normal Nimzo, Black has almost limitless flexibility and potential for pawn breaks so it's hard to be sure what line is best.