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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C10-C14: Classical French: Dynamic? (Read 17991 times)
STEFANOS
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #40 - 05/09/08 at 20:11:01
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i believe the win that today Ivantsuk socred against Topalov from MTel Masters tournament at Sofia, may give an answer to the first who asked , if the classical variation is dynamic.
1) Topalov,V (2767) - Ivanchuk,V (2740) [C11]
4th M-Tel Masters Sofia BUL (2), 09.05.2008

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.a3 cxd4 9.Nxd4 Bc5 10.Be2 0-0 11.Qd2 Qc7 12.Bf3 Nxd4 13.Bxd4 Nb6 14.Ne2 Bxd4 15.Qxd4 Bd7 16.b3 Bb5 17.Nc3 Rfc8 18.Nxb5 axb5 19.Be2 Nd7 20.Ra2 Nb8 21.0-0 Nc6 22.Qd2 Qb6+ 23.Kh1 Qa5 24.Qxa5 Rxa5 25.Raa1 Rca8 26.Rad1 Rxa3 27.Bxb5 Nb4 28.c4 R8a5 29.f5 exf5 30.g4 Rxb3 31.gxf5 Re3 32.Rb1 Nd3 33.e6 d4 34.Be8 Nc5 35.Bxf7+ Kf8 36.f6 gxf6 37.Rxf6 Ke7 38.Rh6 d3 39.Rxh7 d2 40.Rg1 Re1 41.Bh5+ Kxe6 42.Rhg7 Ne4 43.R7g6+ Ke5 0-1
  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #39 - 05/04/08 at 02:48:43
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lnn2 wrote on 11/11/07 at 05:46:18:
My experiences are similar to yours. I think the MacCutcheon is really the only way for me to play against 4. Bg5. But recently I lost miserably to a FM in a few rapid games starting with 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Bb4 5. e5 h6 6. Be3 Ne4 7. Qg4 g6 8. a3 Bxc3+ 9. bxc3 Nxc3 10. Bd3 Nc6 11. h4 Ne7 12. h5 g5 13. Ne2! (much better than 13. f3 which is unclear) where after 13.. Nxe2 14. Qxe2 I think Black is slightly worse.

Black is up a pawn, but ironically, the more pieces Black exchanges, the easier for White to use the open b file or exploit Black's kingside weaknesses. Later I found out from the database that Nepomniatchi also lost to Najer in this line (Najer-Nepomniatchi Moscow 2006), but he was willing to repeat it in Spoelman-Nepomniatchi Corus 2007 so who knows. This was also recommended by Watson for White in Dangerous Weapons.


Hah. Seems like I was right...

Nepom just lost some more games after 13. Ne2! recently:

I. Popov (2594) - I. Nepomniachtchi (2634) Dagomys 2008
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Bb4 5. e5 h6 6. Be3 Ne4
7. Qg4 g6 8. a3 Bxc3+ 9. bxc3 Nxc3 10. Bd3 Nc6 11. h4 Ne7
12. h5 g5 13. Ne2 Nxe2 14. Qxe2 c5 15. dxc5 d4 16. O-O-O Bd7
17. Bxd4 Bc6 18. Bc3 Qd5 19. Rhg1 Qxc5 20. Bb4 Qb6 21. c4 Ba4
22. Qf3 a5 23. Bxe7 Qb3 24. Rd2 Qc3+ 25. Bc2 Qa1+ 26. Bb1 Rc8
27. c5 g4 28. Qe3 Kxe7 29. Ra2 Qxa2 30. Bxa2 b6 31. Kb2 bxc5
32. Qf4 1-0 This was covered by Neil in his recent update.

Nepom then tried to avoid opening the position with 14... Nf5!?, but it was again an unfortunate result. Perhaps Black can improve by being consistent with his strategy and avoid closing the position with 17... c4?! in the following game:

Bo Vuckovic (2556) - I Nepomniachtchi (2634) Plovdiv EuCh. 2008

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Bb4 5. e5 h6 6. Be3 Ne4 7. Qg4 g6 8. a3 Bxc3+ 9. bxc3 Nxc3 10. Bd3 Nc6 11. h4 Ne7 12. h5 g5 13. Ne2 Nxe2 14. Qxe2 Nf5 15. g4 Nxe3 16. fxe3 c5 17. c3 c4 18. Bc2 Qa5 19. Kd2 Bd7 20. Rhf1 O-O-O 21. Rxf7 Ba4 22. Bg6 Rd7 23. Qf1 Rhd8 24. Qf6 Rxf7 25. Bxf7 Bd7 26. Bxe6 Qb5 27. Bxd7+ Rxd7 28. Qf8+ Kc7 29. Qb4 Qxb4 30. axb4 Rf7 31. Ke2 a6 32. Ra5 Rd7 33. Rc5+ 1-0
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #38 - 02/09/08 at 05:31:02
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I lost an exchange French as Black.  Embarrassed


(If there was an embarrassed Charlie Brown emoticon, I would have used it.)

The game appears in the French Exchange thread.
  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #37 - 02/05/08 at 01:59:57
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Thanks guys!

I'll let you know how the game turns out!


~Cheers
  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #36 - 02/01/08 at 04:25:56
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I don't know, but I have a certain fondness for 4...Nf6 5. Nc3 Be7 and if 6. Bd3 Nc6, with the idea 7. Nge2?! Nb4.  7. cd Nxd5 (7...Nb4!?) 8. Nge2 (8. Nf3 looks like a tempo-up Petroff for Black) produces a pretty nice-looking IQP position for Black.

True, there is 6. Nf3, but I would think Black again would have a good chance to reach a sort of improved Petroff IQP, and I don't know how he could expect better winning chances than from such a position.  Miezis-Short, Euro Team Ch 2001 looks nice, for example.  (GM Miezis is one of the main exponents of this line for White.)  
« Last Edit: 02/01/08 at 19:42:15 by kylemeister »  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #35 - 02/01/08 at 03:17:57
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You might invite a transposition to the Göring Gambit Declined with 4...Nc6 5.cxd5 Qxd5 6.Nf3. Of course you should avoid the pure Capablanca line with ...Bb4(+) and ...Bg4, but you might take a look at Nyholm-Alekhine, Stockholm 1912. It's a very fine blockading game. Possible improvements for White are 11.c4, 14.Ng5 and Reinfeld's exchange sac 15.axb5 Nxa1 16.Ne5.
Much sharper is 6...Nf6 7.Be2 Bg4 8.Nc3 Qa5 9.0-0 0-0-0 but it's also quite risky.
  

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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #34 - 02/01/08 at 03:01:54
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I'm going to be facing a master in a standard game soon as Black.  I know that he plays both the Classical (with Bxe7) and the Exchange (with c4).  From what I can tell, he scores mostly draws in the Exchange but his games in the Classical are much more decisive (for both sides).

I believe that this is strong evidence that the Classical French is quite dynamic.  At least it's more dynamic than the Exchange Variation.

I have heard both GM Alex Fishbein and IM Michael Mulyar claim that the French Exchange with an early c4 is anything but drawish and that White has excellent chances to win.

Here's my question:
What is Black's best way to play for winning chances (not necessarily a theoretical advantage) after:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.ed5 ed5 4.c4?

I really think I can beat this player, but I will need to play actively.  He's probably already read his Watson.  I play him on Monday, February 4th.
  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #33 - 01/28/08 at 18:33:04
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Tack.

Oh, these (Swedish) kids today, who haven't heard of Ståhlberg ...
  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #32 - 01/28/08 at 18:21:15
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You can see the game here with some comments in Swedish It's the latest entry (if not you'll find it at January 16th 2008)

http://larsgrahn.blogspot.com/
  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #31 - 01/21/08 at 16:53:37
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On a related note, I was surprised to see this.  I seem to recall when 7...Qxe7 was regarded as bad, but it now seems to be considered playable.  (Incidentally, Berg is a big French player himself, but generally plays the Winawer.)


[Event "Skakliga 2007-08"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.01.13"]
[Round "5.2"]
[White "Berg, Emanuel"]
[Black "Brynell, Stellan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C14"]
[WhiteElo "2580"]
[BlackElo "2452"]
[PlyCount "82"]
[EventDate "2007.11.10"]
[EventType "team"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "DEN"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2003.11.25"]
[WhiteTeam "Helsinge"]
[BlackTeam "Nordkalotten"]
[WhiteTeamCountry "DEN"]
[BlackTeamCountry "DEN"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. h4 c5 7. Bxe7 Qxe7 8. Nb5
O-O 9. Nc7 cxd4 10. Nxa8 f6 11. Qxd4 fxe5 12. Qd2 Nf6 13. f3 Nc6 14. O-O-O Qd6
15. g4 Bd7 16. h5 Rxa8 17. g5 Ne8 18. Rh4 Qc5 19. Bd3 Nd6 20. Nh3 Rf8 21. Nf2
Rxf3 22. Ng4 e4 23. Be2 Nc4 24. Bxc4 Qxc4 25. b3 Qc5 26. Kb2 d4 27. h6 e5 28.
g6 hxg6 29. hxg7 Qc3+ 30. Qxc3 dxc3+ 31. Ka3 Nd4 32. Kb4 Bxg4 33. Rxg4 Nxc2+
34. Ka4 Kxg7 35. Rxe4 Rf4 36. Rxf4 exf4 37. Rc1 Ne3 38. Rxc3 g5 39. Rc7+ Kf6
40. Rxb7 f3 41. Rb8 Nf5 0-1

  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #30 - 01/21/08 at 01:30:29
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It's funny how timing is everything.  Almost a year ago, I asked about 6...Nc6 (after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.h4) in the hopes of finding some interesting theory.  Everyone who bothered to respond said it was just plain bad and not worth looking at. 

This idea has been played by Morozevich and now a 13 year old prodigy.  Perhaps we can have a discussion of the merits of this move?
  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #29 - 01/20/08 at 12:58:44
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Markovich wrote on 10/30/07 at 19:42:42:
Does anyone think that the Classical French, and I'm not talking about the Burn, is suffiently dynamic to be played for a win?  I think that is unmistakbly true of Black's side of the Steinitz Variation, but I am less certain after 4.Bg5 Be7.  Relatedly, how are Black's chances against the Alekhine-Chatard?

I am by no means familiar with the theory of the Classical, rather ignorant in fact.  I'm just seeking the opinion of those with more experience than I.  But I would like to broaden my understanding of the game before these atoms that constitute me find a different use in the Totality of Things.



One of the most interesting young players in the world at the moment plays the Classical French with 5...Be7. That's Hou Yifan from China. Have a look at this dynamic effort played yesterday in the Corus B event:

[Event "Corus B"]
[Site "Wijk aan Zee NED"]
[Date "2008.01.19"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Smeets, J."]
[Black "Hou Yifan"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C14"]
[WhiteElo "2573"]
[BlackElo "2527"]
[PlyCount "116"]
[EventDate "2008.01.12"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e5 Nfd7 6. h4 Nc6 7. Nf3 Nb6 8. Rh3 f6 9. Bf4 fxe5 10. Nxe5 O-O 11. Qd2 Nxe5 12. Bxe5 Nd7 13. Bf4 c5 14. dxc5 Nxc5 15. Be3 Bd7 16. O-O-O Rc8 17. g4 b5 18. Bxb5 Bxb5 19. Nxb5 Ne4 20. Qe1 Qd7 21. Nd4 e5 22. Nf5 Rxf5 23. gxf5 Qxf5 24. Rh2 d4 25. f3 Nc3 26. Bxd4 Nxd1 27. Bxe5 Nf2 28. Rxf2 Bxh4 29. Bc3 Qf7 30. Kb1 Rf8 31. a4 a6 32. Bb4 Bxf2 33. Qxf2 Qxf3 34. Qc5 Rd8 35. b3 Qd5 36. Qc7 Re8 37. Bc3 Qf7 38. Qc6 Qg6 39. Qd5+ Kh8 40. Qd7 Rf8 41. b4 h5 42. b5 axb5 43. axb5 Rf2 44. Qc8+ Kh7 45. Bd4 Rd2 46. Qc3 Rd1+ 47. Kb2 Qg5 48. Qc4 Qf4 49. c3 h4 50. Qd5 Qc1+ 51. Kb3 Qb1+ 52. Ka3 Qa1+ 53. Kb4 Rb1+ 54. Kc5 Qa7+ 55. Kd6 Qb8+ 56. Ke7 Qc7+ 57. Ke6 Re1+ 58. Be5 Rxe5+ 0-1

Hou Yifan has not always been successful with 6...Nc6 but clear ly still has faith in it. I think my current choice against 6 h4 would be this or 6...c5.

I've attached (I hope) a pgn file of important (either historically or theoretically) games with 6...Nc6.

See what you think.


  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #28 - 11/23/07 at 02:20:00
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Markovich,

I spent several months on precisely your question around the time I first signed up at Chesspublishing.  I think the Steinitz is very strong and viable for Black, but I opted for the MacCutcheon against 4.Bg5.  I felt that 4...Be7 was a little passive for Black, and probably doesn't yield the kind of game you're looking for.  I think Black runs into some trouble against the Chatard-Alekhine Attack (see other threads on this)...
  

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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #27 - 11/15/07 at 06:30:11
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Yes, agree this should be standard practice to ease comprehension and increase participation.

1. e4 e6
2. d4 d5
3. Nc3 Nf6
4. Bg5 Be7   
5. e5 Nfd7
6. Be7 Qe7
7. f4 ....
  
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Re: Classical French: Dynamic?
Reply #26 - 11/15/07 at 03:47:19
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@Bibs,

Thanks for providing the links.

@all,

I sometimes get confused even after six moves as to which line is being discussed.  Please let the readers know what the first moves are in your sequence!  Thanks.  Smiley
  
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