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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Mikenas/Flohr System (Read 36907 times)
MarinFan
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #42 - 01/22/08 at 09:03:54
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Hello, 

In a more mainstream line, recently came across the game

[Site "London"]
[Date "2007.08.07"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Speelman,Jonathan S"]
[Black "Wells,Peter K"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "A19"]
1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4 c5 4.e5 Ng8 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.d4 cxd4 7.Nxd4 Nxe5 8.Ndb5 f6 
9.Be3 a6 10.Nd6+ Bxd6 11.Qxd6 Ne7 12.Bb6 Nf5 13.Qc5 d6 14.Qa5 Qd7 15.f4 Nc6 16.Qa3 Nce7 
17.0-0-0 Qc6 18.c5 d5 etc...

Where 18...d5 was a strong improvement, because the exchange sac 19. Bb5 pxB 20. QxR  works out well for black.

Bye John S
  
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jaki
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #41 - 01/21/08 at 18:55:40
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5.d5 exd5 6.cxd5 (6.exd5 Qe7+ 7.Be2 Ne5 =) Nxe4 (6 ... Ne5!? 7.f4 Ng6 8.e5 Ne4 ∞) 7.dxc6 Nxc3 8.bxc3 Bxc3+ 9.Bd2 Bxa1 10.Qxa1 0-0 ∞
  
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Girkassa
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #40 - 01/21/08 at 18:52:14
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Markovich wrote on 01/21/08 at 17:32:11:
jaki wrote on 01/20/08 at 01:12:48:
I have another interesting idea in the Mikenas system: after 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.e4 black may play 3.Nc6!?
The idea is that white cannot play 4.e5 immediately.
Now two possibilities are
a) White plays 4.d4 then black can answer 4...Bb4 ...


And what if 5.d5?  If 5...Nxe4, it seems that White ends up with two minor pieces for a rook and pawn; am I mistaken?


Isn't it a rook and two pawns? I suppose 5.d5 Nxe4 6.dxc6 Nxc3 7.bxc3 Bxc3+ 8.Bd2 Bxa1 9.Qxa1 is the line?

My team-mate tried that out once. The game continued 5.e5 Ne4 6.Qd3 d5 7.Nh3 f6 8.f3 fxe5 9.fxe4 exd4 10.a3 dxc4 11.Qxc4 Qh4+ 12.Kd1 Bxc3 13.bxc3 Qxe4 with complications (Kristensen-Sagafos, 2002). Apparently the line has been played just a few times, with 5.f3 as the most usual (or least unusual) reply.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #39 - 01/21/08 at 17:32:11
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jaki wrote on 01/20/08 at 01:12:48:
I have another interesting idea in the Mikenas system: after 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.e4 black may play 3.Nc6!?
The idea is that white cannot play 4.e5 immediately.
Now two possibilities are
a) White plays 4.d4 then black can answer 4...Bb4 ...


And what if 5.d5?  If 5...Nxe4, it seems that White ends up with two minor pieces for a rook and pawn; am I mistaken?
  
The Great Oz has spoken!
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jaki
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #38 - 01/20/08 at 01:12:48
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I have another interesting idea in the Mikenas system: after 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.e4 black may play 3.Nc6!?
The idea is that white cannot play 4.e5 immediately.
Now two possibilities are
a) White plays 4.d4 then black can answer 4...Bb4 5.e5 (5.Bd3 d5!) Ne4 followed by d5 or f5.
b) White plays 4.Nf3 then black can answer 4... e5 as white cannot play f4 anymore.
Of course I am sure there will be some ways for white to keep the advantage but in some blitz games it was nice way to surprise the opponent.
  
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mefisto6
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #37 - 11/15/07 at 17:35:31
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looking at it again I see that 10. Qe2 is better than O-O. The point is that Ne7 or Be7 are not possible because of Nb5 + Qe5. So, black has to play Qe6 or Kd8 and then white can win his pawn back with h4 and a better position.
I think that 8. .. d6 is too early. 8. .. Bg7 looks better.
  
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mefisto6
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #36 - 11/15/07 at 15:58:42
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0-0 is not possible because of Qxe7  Wink
I thought 13..c6 was not possible because of Qxe7 Qxe7 Nc7 but is seems to be OK for black, so Nb5 might be correct. So, 12. Qe2 instead of 12. Nb5 is probably correct
  
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Willempie
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #35 - 11/15/07 at 15:06:52
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mefisto6 wrote on 11/15/07 at 14:16:48:
after d6 I think white should take exd6. A logical continuation would be
9. .. Qxd6 10. O-O Bg7 11. Re1 Ne7 12. Nb5 Qd8 13. Qe2 and black has problems developing his pieces. White can play b3 + Ba3, slowly increasing the pressure.
If black castles short then Qe4 or Nxg5 + Qh5 can be annoying.
How can black create counter play?

Counterplay is overrated Wink

13..c6 14.Nc3 Bxd4+ might be fun albeit prolly a bit too risky.
I think 13..0-0 is possible too as you can play Ng6 or Bf5.

But I think that in a game I will prolly go 13..c6 14.Nc3 0-0. Nothing better than a pawn up and some options in the defence as I dont think white can blitz through.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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mefisto6
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #34 - 11/15/07 at 14:16:48
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after d6 I think white should take exd6. A logical continuation would be
9. .. Qxd6 10. O-O Bg7 11. Re1 Ne7 12. Nb5 Qd8 13. Qe2 and black has problems developing his pieces. White can play b3 + Ba3, slowly increasing the pressure.
If black castles short then Qe4 or Nxg5 + Qh5 can be annoying.
How can black create counter play?
  
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Willempie
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #33 - 11/15/07 at 14:03:18
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Why play g4?
A move like 8..d6 looks more logical to me. I think hindering that move was one of the ideas behind 8.c5 in the first place.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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mefisto6
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #32 - 11/15/07 at 13:33:59
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White can surely improve, for example
8.Bd3 g4 9. O-O gxf3 10. Qxf3 Na6 (Fritz's suggestion) 11.Qxf4 Qe7 12. Nd5 Qe6
13. Bf5 Qc6 14. e6 dxe6 15. Bg6 1-0
Maybe black can improve somewhere but my feeling is that white has more than enough compensation for the pawn.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #31 - 11/15/07 at 13:13:13
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I found one game in that line:

[Site "Israel"]
[Date "2002.01.10"]
[White "Manor,Ilan"]
[Black "Kosashvili,Yona"]
[Result "0-1"]
1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.e4 e5 4.f4 exf4 5.e5 Ng8 6.Nf3 h6 7.d4 g5 8.c5 b6 9.h4 g4 10.Bxf4 bxc5 11.d5 gxf3 12.Qxf3 Bb7 13.0-0-0 Bg7 14.Qh5 Ne7 15.Bc4 g6 16.d6 cxd6 17.Rhf1 Qe7 18.Bg3 0-0 19.Qxg6 Nc6 20.Rxf7 Rxf7 21.Nd5 Qe6 22.Nf6+ Rxf6 23.Bxe6+ Rxe6 24.Qe4 Rae8 25.Qf3 Ba8 26.Rxd6 Rxd6 27.exd6 Nd4 28.Qg4 Bc6 29.Bf2 Re6 30.b4 Ne2+ 31.Kd2 Re4 32.Qg6 Nf4 33.Qg3 Re2+ 34.Kd1 Ba4+ 35.Kc1 Rxf2 0-1

I think white's 8th needs improving, but attacking is really difficult with a pawn on c4 iso a bishop. And I dont really see a good plan for white so far.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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mefisto6
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #30 - 11/15/07 at 13:04:46
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I think the best try for white is
1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 e6 3. e4 e5 4. f4 ef 5. e5  Ng8 (Qe7 6. Qe2 Ng8 7. d4 Qh4 8. Kd1) 6. Nf3 g5 7. d4
for example 7. .. Bb4 8. h4 g4 9. Ng5 f5 10. Bxf4 h6 11. Bd3 hg 12. Bxg5 Be7
13. Bxf5 Bxg5 14. Qxg4. Fritz suggests here Kf8 but after Ke2 Bf6 Raf1 he changes his mind.
Black is really on the defence here. The c4 pawn strengthes white's center and prevents black's counter play.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #29 - 11/15/07 at 09:36:34
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Note that in my previous post I missed to mention 9.Bxf4 d6
So it is 
1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.e4 e5 4.f4 exf4 5.d4 Bb4 6.Bd3 and if 6...c5 7.d5 Bxc3 8.bxc3 Qe7 9.Bxf4 d6
-10.Qa4+ Nbd7 11.Nf3 0-0 (e5 is not possible yet I think) 12.0-0 Ng4 and e5 is still not possible. 
-10.Qc2 Nbd7 followed by Ng4 
-10Qe2 Bg4 11.Nf3 Nbd7 or 11.Qe3 Nbd7 
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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MarinFan
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Re: Mikenas/Flohr System
Reply #28 - 11/15/07 at 09:06:21
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Hello,

I suppose this system is mostly of interest to players trying to play a Nimzo type position, and you can get one with 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 d5 3.d4 Bb4. This funny thing with no name, was discussed in another thread a while back.
    Going back to (1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.e4 e5 4.f4 exf4) I had dismissed this because i thought white was a lot better after 5.d4. Its interesting too that recently I asked my coach for a lesson in Benoni structures in the Nimzo indian. Would post some of that, but HD has died on my lapTop.

Bye John S
« Last Edit: 11/15/07 at 12:58:02 by MarinFan »  
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