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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Bf4 in QGD (Read 5712 times)
alumbrado
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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #13 - 12/02/07 at 15:09:23
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An interesting question - but aren't there some lines in the 'normal' 5.Bf4 variation where after ...c5 by Black and dxc5 by White, Black plays ...e5 at some point and the White bishop goes to ... er ... g5 ...  Embarrassed
  

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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #12 - 12/02/07 at 12:53:52
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I have a question related the Bf4 line - but where black has an extra tempo:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bf4!?

Who benefit  h6 beeing played?

Black for given some air for his king
or
White for having a target point if he plays after a plan with 0-0-0 and pushing pawns on the kingside - a normal plan in the 5.Bf4 line.

My first impression is that h6 is to white's advantage - but 8.Bh4 is the standard reply Undecided
  
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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #11 - 12/01/07 at 01:23:49
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Rizzitano thinks Black's best after 5. Bf4 dxc4 6. e4 is a straight transposition to the Vienna QGD with 6...Bb4 7. Bg5. If Black wants to play dxc4, he could have done it on move 4.

I am not impressed by 4... Nbd7. While it is unclear if 5. cxd5 cxd5 6. Bf4 is any better than a normal Bg5 Carlsbad, Black is already giving up the option of playing the Alatortsev move order (3... Be7), the option of playing the Tartakower amongst others. That's too much to give up just to avoid 5. Bf4, unless Black is already well versed in say, the Cambridge Springs.    Undecided

Gelfand-Graf Plovdiv 2003 is a good demonstration of White's prospects after 5. Bf4 anyway :
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.Nc3 Nbd7 5.Bf4 dxc4 6.e3 a6 7.a4
Nb6 8.a5 Nbd5 9.Bxc4 Nxf4 10.exf4 Be7 11.O-O O-O 12.Ne5 Qd6
13.Re1 c6 14.f5 exf5 15.Nxf7 Rxf7 16.Qb3 Nd5 17.Nxd5 cxd5
18.Bxd5 Qf6 19.Rac1 Bd7 20.Rc7 Rd8 21.Rxb7 Kf8 22.Rb6 Qxd4
23.Bxf7 Bc5 24.Rd1 Qxf2+ 25.Kh1 Be8 26.Bd5 Bh5 27.Ra1 Qf4
28.Rxa6 Bd6 29.Rxd6 Rxd6 30.Qa3 Qe5 31.a6 Qxd5 32.a7 Kf7
33.Qxd6 Qxd6 34.a8=Q Be2 35.Qa7+ Kf6 36.Qa3 Qd5 37.Qe3 Bb5
38.Re1 Bc6 39.Qe7+ Kg6 40.Qe6+ 1-0
  
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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #10 - 11/19/07 at 20:50:56
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ErictheRed wrote on 11/19/07 at 06:48:21:
Try 5...dxc4!?  I've mentioned this move a couple of times on this board, but no-one ever get interested.  I'm prepared to play it as Black, though I must caution that I haven't played a tournament game with this move yet.


Have you read my post above? Or do you intend to play it with 4...Be7? In that case I prefer 4...Nbd7.
  

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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #9 - 11/19/07 at 09:17:33
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ErictheRed wrote on 11/19/07 at 06:48:21:
Try 5...dxc4!?  I've mentioned this move a couple of times on this board, but no-one ever get interested.  I'm prepared to play it as Black, though I must caution that I haven't played a tournament game with this move yet.

That's prolly a good suggestion.

I myself am looking at a sortof semi-Tartakower with 6..b6. Problem is that it can involve a gambit of which I am not convinced of its correctness or it can lead to a hanging pawns position where the white pieces stand well.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #8 - 11/19/07 at 06:48:21
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Try 5...dxc4!?  I've mentioned this move a couple of times on this board, but no-one ever get interested.  I'm prepared to play it as Black, though I must caution that I haven't played a tournament game with this move yet.
  
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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #7 - 11/19/07 at 00:35:03
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If you need some inspiration to play 9..Nxb4, here are a few games:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e3 c5 7. dxc5 Bxc5 8. a3
Nc6 9. b4 Nxb4 10. axb4 Bxb4 11. Qb3 a5 12. Nd2 d4 13. Ncb1 Ne4 14. Qxb4 axb4
15. Rxa8 e5 16. Bg3 Nc3 17. e4 f5 18. Bxe5 fxe4 19. c5 Nxb1 20. Bc4+ Kh8 21.
Nxe4 Qe7 22. f4 Bf5 23. Rxf8+ Qxf8 24. Nd6 h6 25. g4 Bxg4 26. Rg1 h5 27. h3 Na3
28. Nf7+ 1/2-1/2 Sulypa-Heinis, France Ch, 1999

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e3 c5 7. dxc5 Bxc5 8. a3
Nc6 9. b4 Nxb4 10. axb4 Bxb4 11. Qb3 a5 12. Be5 Nd7 13. Rc1 f6 14. Bg3 Nc5 15.
Qc2 Ne4 16. Qb2 e5 17. Ke2 Nxc3+ 18. Rxc3 Bg4 19. h3 Bh5 20. Rd3 Qc8 21. Qa2
dxc4 22. e4 Bf7 23. Re3 c3 24. Qc2 a4 25. Nxe5 fxe5 26. Bxe5 Bc4+ 27. Ke1 Bb3
28. Rg3 g6 29. Qc1 c2+ 30. Ke2 Qc4+ 0-1 Lautier-Topalov, Amber blind Monte Carlo 1999

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Be7 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e3 c5 7. dxc5 Bxc5 8. a3
Nc6 9. b4 Nxb4 10. axb4 Bxb4 11. Qb3 a5 12. Bd3 dxc4 13. Bxc4 b5 14. Be2 Nd5
15. Be5 a4 16. Qb2 Qa5 17. Rc1 a3 18. Qa1 Bxc3+ 19. Bxc3 Nxc3 20. Rxc3 b4 21.
Rb3 Bd7 22. O-O Ba4 23. Rbb1 Bc2 24. Nd4 Bxb1 25. Rxb1 Rac8 26. Qa2 Rc3 27. g3
Rfc8 28. Kg2 Qd5+ 29. Qxd5 exd5 30. Rxb4 Ra8 31. Rb1 a2 32. Ra1 Rca3 33. Bf3
Rb8 34. Bxd5 Rb2 35. h4 g6 36. g4 Kg7 37. g5 f5 38. Kg3 Kf8 39. h5 Ke7 40. h6
Kd6 41. Bg8 Ra7 42. Kf3 Ke7 43. Bxh7 Kf7 44. Ne2 Rb1 45. Rxa2 Rxa2 46. Nf4 Rb6
47. Bxg6+ Rxg6 48. h7 Ra8 49. Nh3 Rh8 50. Kf4 Rxh7 51. Ng1 Ke6 52. Nf3 Rh5 53.
Nd4+ Kd5 54. Nf3 Ke6 55. Nd4+ Kf7 56. Nf3 Ra6 57. Kxf5 Ra5+ 58. Kg4 Rh1 59. Nd4
Ra2 60. f4 Rg1+ 61. Kf5 Ra3 62. e4 Ra4 63. Nc6 Re1 64. e5 Rf1 65. Nd8+ Ke8 66.
Nc6 Kf8 67. Ne7 Kxe7 68. g6 Rg1 69. g7 Ra8 0-1 Van Wely-Vaganian, NED blitz 2000


1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e3 c5 7. dxc5 Bxc5 8. a3
Nc6 9. b4 Nxb4 10. axb4 Bxb4 11. Qb3 a5 12. Be5 Nd7 13. Bd4 Re8 14. cxd5 e5 15.
Nxe5 Nxe5 16. Bb5 Nc6 17. Bxg7 Kxg7 18. dxc6 Qd4 19. Rc1 Rxe3+ 20. fxe3 Qxe3+
21. Kd1 Be6 22. Qb2 Rd8+ 23. Nd5+ Kg8 0-1 Grettarson-Ehlvest, Reyjkavik Op 2002

1. d4 e6 2. c4 Nf6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e3 c5 7. dxc5 Bxc5 8. a3
Nc6 9. b4 Nxb4 10. axb4 Bxb4 11. Qb3 a5 12. O-O-O Bd7 13. Rd4 Qe7 14. Be5 Rfc8
15. Kb1 b5 16. Nxb5 a4 17. Qa2 Bxb5 18. Bxf6 gxf6 19. cxb5 Rc3 20. Rd3 Rac8 21.
Be2 Ba3 22. Qd2 Qb4+ 23. Ka1 Rc1+ 24. Rxc1 Rxc1+ 25. Ka2 Qc4+ 26. Kxa3 Ra1+ 27.
Kb2 Qa2+ 28. Kc3 Qb3+ 0-1  Epishin-Short, Malmo 2002

  
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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #6 - 11/18/07 at 23:04:15
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LeeRoth,

Thanks for the lines.  I'll give them a shot and see what happens!

Scott
  

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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #5 - 11/16/07 at 21:39:27
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Those are two annoying lines.

Against the early queenside expansion, I sometimes like to sac on b4.  It looks a bit daft, but I've had good results with it.  1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.Bf4 O-O 6.e3 c5 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.a3 Nc6 9.b4 Nxb4  10.axb4 Bxb4 11.Qb3 a5 with the threat of ..Ne4.

http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.phpfen=r1bq1rk1/1p3ppp/4pn2/p2p4...;  

Afraid I don't have anything as radical in the isolated pawn positions.  8.cxd5 Nxd5 9.Nxd5 exd5 10. a3 (10. Bd3 Bb4+) Nc6 11.Bd3 Bb6 12.0-0 and now I used to play 12..Bg4, but after 13.h3 Bh5 14.b4 Re8 15.Rc1 I agree that Black's position is difficult.  15..a6 is supposed to be best, but after 16.Bxa6 Rxa6 17.b5 Rxa3 18.bxc6 bxc6 19.Rxc6 Ra7 20.Rd6 Rd7, you're in a pawn down ending, where Black only has chances to hold. 

So, lately I've been playing 12..d4!? instead.  Usually this leads to drawish play, but what are you going to do?  As Black in the QGD, you sometimes have to be happy with a draw.  Anyway, the main lines seem to be 13.e4 Bg4 14.h3 and now either 14..Bh5 or Onischuk's 14..Qf6.

Hope this helps,
LeeRoth

  
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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #4 - 11/16/07 at 20:05:44
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The two lines that are giving me the most trouble are the quick queenside expansion (8.a3 9.b4) and the IQP lines (8.cxd).  White's plans seem so simple and effective, and out of book moves can still be pretty strong, or at least not give Black much in the way of counterplay. 

Thanks for any suggestions. 
Scott

p.s.  I love the 0-0-0 lines, but I don't get them often.
  

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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #3 - 11/14/07 at 05:51:07
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Good question, Lee!

BTW, just as a general primer on the topic, take a look at the old Karpov-Korchnoi matches and (almost as old now) some of the games Kaspy and Karpov played using Bf4.  They are still topical!
  
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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #2 - 11/14/07 at 00:46:13
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smrex13 wrote on 11/13/07 at 07:49:03:
Hi everyone,

Hope this message finds you all well.  I have been playing the QGD a lot lately with good success.  However, the Bf4 line is KILLING ME.  I feel like I have to play perfectly to grovel for a draw.  Is this line as difficult as it seems?  I have Janjgava's book, but I'm still getting blown out of the water.  I hope someone can offer some help.

Thanks!
Scott



Which line is bothering you?





  
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Re: Bf4 in QGD
Reply #1 - 11/13/07 at 20:35:51
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You might trod in Spielmann's footsteps against Alekhine, Carlsbad 1923: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 Nbd7 (but then no Tartakower in case of 5.Bg5) 5.Bf4 dxc4 and 6...Nb6. Haven't had the chance to try it yet.
  

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Bf4 in QGD
11/13/07 at 07:49:03
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Hi everyone,

Hope this message finds you all well.  I have been playing the QGD a lot lately with good success.  However, the Bf4 line is KILLING ME.  I feel like I have to play perfectly to grovel for a draw.  Is this line as difficult as it seems?  I have Janjgava's book, but I'm still getting blown out of the water.  I hope someone can offer some help.

Thanks!
Scott
  

"Behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain"  - Bob Dylan
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