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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order. (Read 10383 times)
flaviddude
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #14 - 12/27/07 at 12:11:08
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mefisto6 wrote on 11/19/07 at 13:00:58:
When you are planning to play the benoni then you also have to study the anti-benoni d4 Nf6 c4 c5 Nf3 thoroughly, which is in fact  a symmetrical english. Carsten Hanssen's book about the symmetrical english has a nice chapter about the anti-benoni.
Symmetrical english systems with g6 tend to be drawish, systems with e6 are more complex and offer more chances to outplay the opponent.


Thank you very much. The system you quote is one that is very common at the club level. I learnt the hard way that black needs to know what he is doing.
  
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mefisto6
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #13 - 11/19/07 at 13:00:58
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When you are planning to play the benoni then you also have to study the anti-benoni d4 Nf6 c4 c5 Nf3 thoroughly, which is in fact  a symmetrical english. Carsten Hanssen's book about the symmetrical english has a nice chapter about the anti-benoni.
Symmetrical english systems with g6 tend to be drawish, systems with e6 are more complex and offer more chances to outplay the opponent.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #12 - 11/18/07 at 13:03:06
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 11/17/07 at 05:34:04:
I have played 1.d4 for most of my chess career but I also play 1.Nf3 quite frequently.  I don't really like facing 1.Nf3 c5, but I have noticed that my opponents like the Symmetrical English (2.c4) even less!  I get the impression that people who play 1...c5 are often expecting to get a major opening skirmish and instead they have to fight for the initiative in a closed setting.  This seems to be a major disincentive to play 1...c5.

So, make sure you're comfortable playing the Black side of the Symmetrical English if you play 1...c5.

The main problem is that most players, myself included, dont put much effort into the English/Reti. The symmetrical doesnt have to be boring at all, but you have to make some effort into studying some more enterprising lines (as in the Palliser book for example). Otherwise it is very easy to go "schablone" and end up in a very timid game where you still have the first move disadvantage.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #11 - 11/17/07 at 05:34:04
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I have played 1.d4 for most of my chess career but I also play 1.Nf3 quite frequently.  I don't really like facing 1.Nf3 c5, but I have noticed that my opponents like the Symmetrical English (2.c4) even less!  I get the impression that people who play 1...c5 are often expecting to get a major opening skirmish and instead they have to fight for the initiative in a closed setting.  This seems to be a major disincentive to play 1...c5.

So, make sure you're comfortable playing the Black side of the Symmetrical English if you play 1...c5.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #10 - 11/16/07 at 20:28:50
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Tournevyks wrote on 11/16/07 at 17:39:26:
mefisto6 wrote on 11/16/07 at 15:26:58:
Tournevyks, you mights as well consider playing an e6 sicilian agaist e4,


Perfect, as I sometimes play the Taimanov Smiley

But can I really play "Benoni moves" against all white systems ? For example, against a Reti, can I play 1. Nf3 Nf6 g3 c5 Bg2 e6 ... ?  I think it should be an English...  But can I really play a "universal" system based on c5, e6, and Nf6 against other moves than 1. e4 (And 1. b4 ! Cheesy) ?

Starting with c5 should do the trick in most cases and follow up with Nc6 first to take aim at d4 (can be fun if you combine it with Qb6 in some lines where white plays d4).
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #9 - 11/16/07 at 17:39:26
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mefisto6 wrote on 11/16/07 at 15:26:58:
Tournevyks, you mights as well consider playing an e6 sicilian agaist e4,


Perfect, as I sometimes play the Taimanov Smiley

But can I really play "Benoni moves" against all white systems ? For example, against a Reti, can I play 1. Nf3 Nf6 g3 c5 Bg2 e6 ... ?  I think it should be an English...  But can I really play a "universal" system based on c5, e6, and Nf6 against other moves than 1. e4 (And 1. b4 ! Cheesy) ?
  
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mefisto6
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #8 - 11/16/07 at 15:26:58
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Tournevyks, you mights as well consider playing an e6 sicilian agaist e4, some lines of the anti-benoni and the symmetrical english transpose, for example
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. Nf3 cd 4. Nxd4 e6 5. Nc3 a6 6. e4 is a Kan sicilian.
This way, you can build an universal system based on c5, e6 and Nf6.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #7 - 11/16/07 at 14:04:24
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Tournevyks wrote on 11/15/07 at 17:47:15:
Thank's Willempie for Palliser's book. I think I'll do like this. Benoni Against 1. d4, and 1... c5 against the rest Wink

Ur welcome

There is a very recent thread about benoni titles, so you may wanna check there as well.

And dont listen to the others. The slav exchange is boring. Grin
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #6 - 11/16/07 at 13:59:45
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if slav does not suit you, play semi slav then. It is sharper.
  
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #5 - 11/16/07 at 08:33:12
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Move one chess comedy from alias. gotta love it.

Slav books for Tourneviks-san. Two worth getting until Vigus: 
1) Burgess one pretty good but showing a little age. 
2) Get Sokolov's Best Games for inspiration and ideas.
3) **Slav repertoire book by Vigus coming soon which will show you what to do. 

Oh and despite what people say - exchange slav is not just boring but can actually be quite tricky for black. So study that. Portisch-Kramnik a useful pointer.

Half remember a Markov book? Old but sposed to be good. Anyone?
  
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #4 - 11/15/07 at 18:19:13
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Does that include 1.b4 c5?  Cheesy
  
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #3 - 11/15/07 at 17:47:15
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Bibs wrote on 11/15/07 at 16:56:24:
Wait a while.
Slav is basically universal as long as you can play black side of caro panov-botvinnik after 1 c4 c6 2 e4. Low frequency tho I suspect.


I play c6 against c4, and d5 against Nf3, which usually transposes in the Slav. But I really don't like it... I like to play with my pieces and I just can't with this opening. During my last tournament, I won against two 2200 with White, and drew a lost position against a 2000 with Black, in a slav. I'm not saying that my drew is Slav Defence's fault, it's of course my play. But I don't know how to play this opening...

Thank's Willempie for Palliser's book. I think I'll do like this. Benoni Against 1. d4, and 1... c5 against the rest Wink
  
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #2 - 11/15/07 at 17:07:53
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It is semi-universal as you will have to deal with the lines in which white goes without d5 anyway. Those are part of the symmetrical English/Reti. But you still will have to deal with some extra lines from those openings.

If you go that way there is a book by Palliser  "beating unusual openings" which uses 1..c5 against the Reti and English and has some fun but decent lines (NOT the dull symmetrical lines, but quite a bit more fun).
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
Reply #1 - 11/15/07 at 16:56:24
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Wait a while.
New book on Slav coming out by Vigus. Lots of fun stuff in store...!
Slav is basically universal as long as you can play black side of caro panov-botvinnik after 1 c4 c6 2 e4. Low frequency tho I suspect.

No, Benoni is not a 'universal'. 

KID sort of is but watch out for English botvinnik kinda setups (i.e. white refusing point blank to play d4)
  
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Benoni with a 1. c4/1. Nf3 move order.
11/15/07 at 16:47:41
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Hi,

I play the slav against d4, and e5 against e4, like the "soviet" school. 1... e5 is an agressive response, which is perfect for my play. But the slav is too quiet. So I intend to play the Benoni (The Starting Out : Modern Benoni looks good). 
But as I'm a bit lazy, I would like to play an opening playable against d4, c4, and Nf3. Is it possible with the Benoni ? Is there a move order against Nf3, or c4 ?

Thanks.
  
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