sssthepro wrote on 11/29/07 at 11:07:48:

Noworries.
Also keep in mind that for most here English is not the first language and that "electronic conversation" is in general more direct than the organic variety. So something may come across as blunt or rude, which is not intended that way at all.

Btw a very handy resource is www.chesslive.de It is especially useful to check out variations you dont know.
[blatant selfpromotion]Ie that's how I repaired my Catalan mistake (see the thread about me and the catalan)[blatant selfpromotion]

I tend to buy the books too - don't overlook the second hand market - some quite new titles can be found for good prices, Amazon, obviously, but Abe books is my favourite
When my books don't cover something or I think they are out of date, I tend to use the key and database of New in Chess.com as a substitute for MCO, I guess you don't get the editorial value of MCO/NCO/ECO, but it's very accessible and you can track straight to the relevant games in the board window
comments?

Greetings,

sssthepro
I can see both points here - the forum is for discussion, certainly; at the same time, the members here expect posters to do some homework.

I realize that you've done some research - at least, with Fritz if not through your own efforts - but there are so many more freely available resources at your disposal to find the answers to some of the questions you ask.

Consider, I certainly have a reasonable library - but I don't always find the answers for which I'm looking.

We both have computers - the fact that we can post on forums is a fair indication of this. 

I use a FREE chess application called SCID - although this is no longer being developed, its features are more than sufficient for anyone of my ability. There are, in fact, two other similar applications (based on SCID) which are being actively developed and I would recommend either one to you - ChessDB or Scid-pg (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane%27s_Chess_Information_Database)

The advantage of SCID is that - like Chess Assistant - it is transpositional; it doesn't matter what move order is used, you can reach the same position regardless. Chessbase, on the other hand, is move-order dependent - if you reach a position using a certain move order, it won't show you games with the same position but using different move orders.

By downloading games from various websites, TWIC for example, you can build up a considerable collection of games from the best players in the world throughout the history of chess.

Archive - http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/twicp1.html
Current - http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/twicp.html

Column 4 contains the weekly PGN files in ZIP format.

For example, my SCID database - despite being incomplete (I've only downloaded half of the available TWIC games - and this doesn't include all the other possible websites!) - shows 178 games after move 10..., Be6 from 2003-5 where the average Elo rating ranged from 2370-2460. (I've yet to download the more recent months and most of the archive.)

Of these, 11. b3 and 11. e3 have been played in 88 games (44 each) with wins for White in 71.5% and 69.3% of those games, respectively.

Also, 11. f4 (22 games with 62.3%), 11. Nc6 (37 games with - only - 41.8%), 11. Rc1 (8 and 62.5%) and 11. Bxf6 (3 and 100%) also feature - not to mention the odd games with other moves which seem to favour Black, perhaps because there aren't that many examples.

You see?

By the time I finish adding all of TWIC - with weekly updates - and other websites (the Irish Chess Union has downloads for games by Irish players going back to the early 19th century!), I'll have a considerable database from which to find all sorts of moves - and move-orders(!)

And all this is freely available on the internet.

A library - as kylemeister suggests - is a perfect place to get a book on the openings, both general and specific. Watson's recent two volume opus on the openings (Mastering The Chess Openings - Volumes 1 & 2) should be high on your list - both for understanding the openings and their latest lines.

Keep posting - but ask questions based on more thorough/reliable research; for example, where annotators seem to differ on assessments for a given position/variation, etc.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas

Here's a practical observation.

At your level (and mine), if you play 100 non-computer games starting out with the moves 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6, you will probably get the chance to choose between the  main line Tarrasch options 9...dc and 9...c4 maybe 10 times.  Probably not even that much.

I realize that doesn't answer your question, just thought I'd offer an observation based on experience.

Now, to attempt to answer your question more specifically --

In my opinion, 9...dc is more in keeping with the original spirit of the Tarrasch:  IQP, central space advantage, active piece play, etc.  However, at the very top levels, it has not been popular for quite some time, although Spassky and Kasparov used to trot it out from time to time.  I believe Akobian still plays it.

9...c4 leads to a different kind of game, usually with Black trying to advance his Qside pawn majority at some point.  One of the chuks plays it, or used to play it, fairly regularly, cant remember if it's Onischuck or Grischuk. 

Do some database searches on ECO D32-D34, you'll find lots of good games, especially from the first part of the 20th Century.  There's even some pretty good stuff on this site.

The Tarrasch is playable and fun.  But, again, you'll rarely get the opportunity to play it in its pure form against players rated less than 2200.

One thought is interlibrary loan.  In my experience here in the States, this can be used to obtain almost any book you're interested in (and up to 4 books at a time, though books from the current year aren't allowed -- e.g. you would have to wait until the beginning of 2008 to obtain a book that came out in 2007), which you would then have (just as with a regular library book) to look at, make notes from etc. for a few weeks, gratis (supposedly a charge can sometimes be applied, but I have used the service a number of times and have never been charged anything).

People are generally happy to help here, but too many duff qs do stretch the patience.
So, on yer bike and off to the library then sss.

Call me old -fashioned but if I want to find out about a line, I buy a book. Tiresome to play the 'I'm a pauper' card. Ask yer granny if she can give you a book for Christmas this year instead of foisting another knitted checked sweater on you.

If you know next-to-nothing, which sometimes appears to be the case, your library may have a well-thumbed copy of BCO which you can peruse while keeping warm.

If all people did as you, chess writers would have no income and would stop writing. And would have to get a proper job which may deleteriously affect a nation's productivity. Thus no chess books for the rest of us.

Regarding sponsorship, I fear our collective coffers may contain insufficient.

Tarrasch books: aagard and someone I think. Or chessgames.com. Free.

Preach it, brother Eric.

Speaking of NCO ...as I (sort of) mentioned in a previous thread, I think that many of the folks posting here could do far worse than plan to get the forthcoming MCO-15 (edited by GM Nick de Firmian).

Reminds me of a recent article by GM Lev Alburt in the American magazine Chess Life, saying basically that [the somewhat similar] ECO is a cornerstone of modern chess and a valuable tool for class players, who should make use of it rather than going around trying to reinvent the wheel.

I have a question about one Tarrasch Line. After

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.g3 Nf6 6.Bg2 Nc6 7.0-0 Be7 8.Nc3 0-0 9.Bg5 c4!? (9...cxd4 is the mainline)

This is an interesting line. Usually, Black players play this early in the game, but it seems that it is more effective if you play this move here. Some lines here.

10.Ne5 (Fritz suggested this) Be6 (10...Nxe5 11.dxe5 Nd7 12.Bxe7 Qxe7 13.Nxd5 Qxe5 14.Qc2 (Or 14.f4 and 15.e4) ) 11.e3 h6 12.Bxf6 Bxf6 13.f4 Ne7 Is White better here? It seems that Black is very solid, and it is not very clear how White can attack on the kingside. 

Another line is 11.Nxc6 bxc6 12.e4 Nxe4 (12...dxe4 13.Nxe4 Nxe4 14.Bxe7 Qxe7 15.Bxe4 Bd5 also looks okay) 13.Bxe7 Nxc3 14.Bxd8 Nxd1 15.Be7 Nxb2 16.Bxf8 Kxf8

Black has two pawns for the piece, a passed pawn and a terror knight on d3. Actually, I like Black here. 

Therefore, what should be played?