Fllg wrote on 07/15/10 at 18:12:46:
Paddy wrote on 07/06/10 at 23:45:58:
I assume Bibs was referring to the line 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 c5 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3 Qc7 7. Qg4 f5 8. Qg3 cxd4 9. cxd4 Ne7 and now instead of the old 10.Bd2 etc White plays 10. Ne2 O-O 11. c3, e.g. 11...b6 12. Nf4 Qd7 13. a4 Ba6 14. Bb5! and Black's game is difficult. He probably has to change plan and play 11...Nc6, or Moskalenko's 8...Nc6. The Qc7 line has not been seen much in recent years, probably owing to this line and to the fact that even the old main lines of the Qc7 system are not exactly a bed of roses for Black.
If you are a subscriber to the French section of Chess Publishing, the quoted line, analysed by Neil McDonald, should be available to you in the archives.
If you have improvements, please post them here, since I am sure that there are many Winawer fans who would like to see the Qc7 line become a viable option once more!
I have already stated elsewhere in this forum that I had this in a game with White in 2005 which continued after 14.Bb5 Nec6 15.h4 Bxb5 16.axb5 Na5 17.h5 and now instead of 17... Nb3? analysed by Khalifman my opponent played the far superior 17... Qf7! and White seems to have no advantage. This has also been played by german GM Arik Braun vs. Zude in 2009 where Black won. I haven´t found anything really promising for White so as far as I can say Black is in good shape after 6... Qc7.
Thank you for this. I had actually noticed Zude-Braun, but since I (and my engines) still preferred White after 17...Qf7 I paid it little attention. I agree that it is a useful improvement from the black point of view - so many thanks!
However, it does not seem to change the fundamentals of the position, with White having the safer king, more space, dark-square weaknesses to exploit, a weak black pawn at e6 and a potentially game-winning unopposed bishop. So White still looks better to me, and I suggest that he also has more more ideas to work with; I think White should castle quickly to connect the rooks, rather than mess around with Rh3 ideas; it is probably better to postpone h5-h6 and keep it hanging over Black's head; White's queen can be a nuisance on g5; White's rooks can double on the a-file in some lines; the Ba3 may go to b4, to guard c3 and allow the rooks to press on the a-file, or to d6; if the bishop is threatened on d6, White is often just able to leave it there, since ...Nxd6 exd6 opens up new possibilities for White's pieces.
Black's possible a7-a6 break is double edged, but otherwise there seems little possibility of activity, since it is quite easy for White to stem any pressure on the c-file.
These are the impressions of an experienced 2140 player after investigating the position after 17...Qf7 with the help of various strong engines for a couple of hours; much as I would like the Qc7 line to be restored to full health, I have to say that even after this valuable improvement I would still rather be White.
I also note that so far in 2010 there has not exactly been a rush of GMs trying to repeat Braun's success - which is not firm evidence, of course, but is perhaps worth bearing in mind.
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C18: winawer poisoned pawn books (Read 90669 times)
