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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan (Read 27697 times)
GMTonyKosten
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #24 - 05/29/12 at 00:46:34
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sssthepro wrote on 12/29/07 at 10:51:45:
Maybe you guys can ask Richard Palliser or John Emms or anyone who is preparing the next update about this Smiley

I finally did ... a few years later! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #23 - 05/25/12 at 21:20:17
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Seems this relevant theoretical publication was deleted by accident:

2 weeks ago i found out on chesscafe a review from the latest Secrets of Opening Surprises, Volume 14: http://www.chesscafe.com/hansen/hansen.htm.
One of the listed chapters immediately attracted my attention: Max Illingworth – Sicilian: the Illingworth Gambit (10 pages) It didn't take very long to find out that it concerned the novelty which I here published in 2007.
A summary of the copy- paste can be found in the pgn here below and can easily be checked with the article of SOS and the posts here on chesspub.


Max Illingworth added his share of comments to the original analyses but after analyzing these additions carefully, i only came to the conclusion that they were done less deep than mine, often forgetting important nuances. See attached pgn with plenty of remarks on Max additions.

I had some mailexchanges with Max in which he admitted that his game was fully based on the notes on chesspub and the new move 12.Ne4 was on the board inspiration as he couldn't fully remember the published analysis.

Anyway looking at the overall quality of the article in SOS and the free analysis here on chesspub, I don't think it is worth to buy the magazine if you're not interested in the rest of the SOS magazine.
« Last Edit: 05/25/12 at 22:25:22 by GMTonyKosten »  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #22 - 10/25/11 at 22:00:06
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Fair warning for Chess.com members: If you use openingmaster.com extensively, you may be accused of engine abuse.  But I suppose that's actually a recommendation for the site!
  
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TN
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #21 - 10/24/11 at 05:54:46
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Markovich wrote on 10/23/11 at 13:48:50:
brabo wrote on 10/23/11 at 05:59:22:
I believe the idea hasn't repeated yet due to the fact that the big databases are only released once per year


This is not true.  Check out http://www.openingmaster.com


If you don't mind, would you be able to post the other game/games played with 8.0-0?

Opening Master looks extremely good by the way. I think I'll choose it over Mega Database in fact.
  

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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #20 - 10/24/11 at 05:15:54
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Markovich wrote on 10/23/11 at 13:48:50:
brabo wrote on 10/23/11 at 05:59:22:
I believe the idea hasn't repeated yet due to the fact that the big databases are only released once per year


This is not true.  Check out http://www.openingmaster.com


I didn't know the existence of this site and such database and I doubt many do. Thanks for the link !
Anyway I normally buy once per year 1 of the chessbaseproducts (bigbase) and manually download a few times per year the twics and games of the local tournaments to keep track of the latest developments and my direct opponents.
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #19 - 10/23/11 at 13:48:50
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brabo wrote on 10/23/11 at 05:59:22:
I believe the idea hasn't repeated yet due to the fact that the big databases are only released once per year


This is not true.  Check out http://www.openingmaster.com
  

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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #18 - 10/23/11 at 05:59:22
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TN wrote on 04/06/11 at 11:08:44:
I checked my database for games with 8.0-0 while viewing this thread, and this piece sacrifice was played in the following game:

[Event "Australian Open"]
[Site "Cammeray AUS"]
[Date "2011.01.05"]
[Round "4.1"]
[White "Illingworth, M."]
[Black "Zhao Zong Yuan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B41"]
[WhiteElo "2311"]
[BlackElo "2586"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[EventDate "2011.01.02"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "AUS"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2011.01.10"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 a6 5. c4 Nf6 6. Nc3 Bb4 7. Bd3 Nc6 8. O-O
Nxd4 9. e5 Be7 10. exf6 Bxf6 11. Be3 Nc6 12. Ne4 O-O 13. c5 Bxb2 14. Rb1 Bd4
15. Bxd4 Nxd4 16. Nd6 Nb5 17. Bxb5 axb5 18. Rxb5 Rxa2 19. Qb3 Ra6 20. Rb6 Qg5
21. Qb4 Qd5 22. h3 Ra2 23. Qc3 f5 24. Re1 h6 25. Qe5 Qxe5 26. Rxe5 Ra5 27. f4
g5 28. fxg5 hxg5 29. g4 Ra1+ 30. Kh2 Ra2+ 31. Kg1 Ra1+ 32. Kh2 1/2-1/2

Certainly a promising start for the sacrifice, though no one has repeated it since.


I somehow missed this post and the game. There are many improvements possible in the game but it stays an advertising for the 0-0 idea as cleary making a draw in the way as it happened in the game against a much stronger opponent is a success.

I believe the idea hasn't repeated yet due to the fact that the big databases are only released once per year and the white player is rather low rated.
Anyhow it would've been nice to see a review on chesspublishing.com of this idea.

Some open questions remain with the game for me.
1) Did Illingworth pick up the idea here on this site or he developed himself the idea and made his own conclusions. In that case I would love to see in which extend the analysis overlap.
2) Is 12.Ne4 the fruit of homework, on the board inspiration or simply a mix up of the variations?
« Last Edit: 10/23/11 at 07:35:51 by brabo »  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #17 - 04/06/11 at 11:08:44
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I checked my database for games with 8.0-0 while viewing this thread, and this piece sacrifice was played in the following game:

[Event "Australian Open"]
[Site "Cammeray AUS"]
[Date "2011.01.05"]
[Round "4.1"]
[White "Illingworth, M."]
[Black "Zhao Zong Yuan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B41"]
[WhiteElo "2311"]
[BlackElo "2586"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[EventDate "2011.01.02"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "11"]
[EventCountry "AUS"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2011.01.10"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 a6 5. c4 Nf6 6. Nc3 Bb4 7. Bd3 Nc6 8. O-O
Nxd4 9. e5 Be7 10. exf6 Bxf6 11. Be3 Nc6 12. Ne4 O-O 13. c5 Bxb2 14. Rb1 Bd4
15. Bxd4 Nxd4 16. Nd6 Nb5 17. Bxb5 axb5 18. Rxb5 Rxa2 19. Qb3 Ra6 20. Rb6 Qg5
21. Qb4 Qd5 22. h3 Ra2 23. Qc3 f5 24. Re1 h6 25. Qe5 Qxe5 26. Rxe5 Ra5 27. f4
g5 28. fxg5 hxg5 29. g4 Ra1+ 30. Kh2 Ra2+ 31. Kg1 Ra1+ 32. Kh2 1/2-1/2

Certainly a promising start for the sacrifice, though no one has repeated it since.
  

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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #16 - 03/19/08 at 20:51:54
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Some news here - I had two practical games (Ok only 3-0 on ICC) against an IM and both games went:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 a6 5.c4 Nf6 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Bd3 Nc6 8.0-0 Nd4 9.e5 Bc3 10.bc3 Nc6 11.ef6 Qf6 and unfortunatly I couldnt remember the thread and played twice 12.Ba3 and lost. I had to swap queens and was just a pawn down in the end.

I hope Ill get another chance to play this line and improve with the recommended 12.Rb1 which I forgot (OK 3-0 you dont have time - you just move  Wink)

Stay tuned...
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #15 - 01/25/08 at 11:49:19
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Quote:
1) 12..., Be7 13. Qe2 (Na4 must be seriously taken as an alternative), d6 14. cd6:, Bd6: 15. Rfd1 (Here Rad1 is also very interesting), Qc7 16. g3, 0-0 17. Rac1 (With 17. Bh7+: white can already win back the pawn but I prefer to increase the pressure.), Rd8 18. Na4 with a promising position for white

Your right - the positions in these lines look dangerous for black.

Quote:
2) 12..., 0-0 13. Na4, e5 14. Nb6, Rb8 15. Bf5 (Not the only move which leads to an advantage), Nd4 16. Bd4:, ed4: 17. Qd3, g6 18. Qg3, d6 19. Nc8:, Rc8: 20. Bc8:, Qc8: 21. cd6: with advantage for white

Black has to play g6 at some point before e5 - I think position should be OK.

We need to practise now, to see what happens ... Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #14 - 01/20/08 at 05:07:08
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I had a look at your ideas. Below my recommendations.

1. e4, c5 2. Nf3, e6 3. d4, cd4: 4. Nd4:, a6 5. c4, Nf6 6. Nc3, Bb4 7. Bd3, Nc6 8. 0-0, Nd4: 9. e5, Be7 10. Be3, Nc6 11. ef6:, Bf6: 12. c5 (This is clearly my favourite but if white wants to try another path then 12. Qh5, Qa5 13. Qa5:, Na5: 14. c5 is fully acceptable)

1) 12..., Be7 13. Qe2 (Na4 must be seriously taken as an alternative), d6 14. cd6:, Bd6: 15. Rfd1 (Here Rad1 is also very interesting), Qc7 16. g3, 0-0 17. Rac1 (With 17. Bh7+: white can already win back the pawn but I prefer to increase the pressure.), Rd8 18. Na4 with a promising position for white

2) 12..., 0-0 13. Na4, e5 14. Nb6, Rb8 15. Bf5 (Not the only move which leads to an advantage), Nd4 16. Bd4:, ed4: 17. Qd3, g6 18. Qg3, d6 19. Nc8:, Rc8: 20. Bc8:, Qc8: 21. cd6: with advantage for white
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #13 - 01/13/08 at 10:03:59
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Quote:
A very interesting alternative is 12. Qh5

Can I play 12...Qa5 on that?

Quote:
12. c5

This could become annoying for black - I propose two possible ways:

1) Play immediately (before castling) against c5-pawn with Be7 and d6
2) Castle, keep the bishop on f6, try to install a knight on d4 (after e5) and then play d6 to free the game

I am sorry that I dont have the time to work out concrete variations at the moment (holidays are over Smiley), but the feeling tells me White has to do something very fast, cause if Black gets full play he is simple a pawn up. And another thing come to my mind: Black could also decide at some moment to give the pawn back to reach a free game - the resulting position may be slightly favouring White, but thats ususal if you play Black.

Summing up for me I think the whole idea is a real shocker OTB, but its a little gambling. Facing a real strong opponent could perhaps even lead to a worse position for White. This is an important thought one should have before playing 8.0-0: How do I estimate the strength of the opp? Do I want to win this game or am I satisfied with a draw? Would it be desastrous to lose (eg in a team competition - White losses really count!)?

If someone will play this as Black against me on ICC I will certainly give it a practical try, as well as in Blitz- or Rapidgames. I am not sure about using in a classical time control.
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #12 - 01/12/08 at 19:42:43
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It took me some time to agree on the most promising way on 9 .., Be7 for white but below you can find my conclusion.

1. e4, c5 2. Nf3, e6 3. d4, cd4: 4. Nd4:, a6 5. c4, Nf6 6. Nc3, Bb4 7. Bd3, Nc6 8. 0-0, Nd4: 9. e5, Be7 10. Be3, Nc6 11. ef6:, Bf6: (The moveorder 10. ef6:, Bf6: 11. Be3, Nc6 looks also ok)
12. c5 (A very interesting alternative is 12. Qh5 preventing an easy 12. ...., 0-0.)
12..., 0-0 13. Na4 (White has a bunch of alternatives but this seems to me the most critical one)
13..., Be5 14. f4, Bc7 15. Qb3 or 15. Qd2 with excellent compensation for the pawn. Black can't free himself without serious concessions.


  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #11 - 01/02/08 at 16:20:58
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This is a really nice one! Smiley

As I play the Sicilian mainly with white it could be a surprise weapon. I was following this discussion and nearly thinking, that black is in real troubles - but (there is always a "but" after nearly Wink) looking deeper I would suggest:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 a6 5.c4 Nf6 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.Bd3 Nc6 8.O-O Nxd4 9.e5

and now 9...Be7

now:
1) 10.ef6 Bf6 and if 11.Ne4 Be7 (there are of course other 11. white moves - do they change something?)
2) 10.Be3 Nc6 11.Na4!? (threatening Bb6) d6

Either way blacks position looks solid and he is a pawn up - I am not sure if white has enough compensation, but faced OTB is another story
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #10 - 12/29/07 at 10:51:45
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Maybe you guys can ask Richard Palliser or John Emms or anyone who is preparing the next update about this Smiley
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #9 - 12/27/07 at 21:47:35
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1. e4, c5 2. Nf3, e6 3. d4, cd4: 4. Nd4:, a6 5. c4, Nf6 6. Nc3, Bb4 7. Bd3, Nc6 8. 0-0, Nd4: 9. e5, 0-0 10. Be3, Bc3: 11. bc3:, Nf5 12. Bf5:, ef5: 13. ef6:, Qf6: 14. c5

After 14. ..., Re8 white has a wide variety of choices. 15. Re1 and 15. Bd4 look to me the most appealing ones with certainly enough compensation for the one pawn. Likely black can hold the position but it is not a dead draw.

After 14. ..., d5 which is an attempt to force the draw, I recommend 15. cd6: (e.p.), f4 16. Bc5!, Bd7 17. Re1, Rfe8 18. Re7! (The pawnsacrifice is also here fully acceptable) Bc6 18. f3, Qc3: 19. Rc1 with large compensation for the pawn. Maybe white can't win this position but there is still play left.
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #8 - 12/25/07 at 07:40:36
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In your A line I'd agree that White has more than enough compensation, but 14...Qxc3 doesn't look a good idea to me. With BOC Black should be looking to keep his position solid and trade down to the drawn ending. An extra pawn here or there will make no difference.

As such I see two possible plans here - the solid 14...Re8, intending Re6, and the one I like - saccing a pawn back by 14...d5 15.cxd6 f4 followed by blockading the pawn with Bd7. The pawn c3 is still hanging and f3 is also threatened. Might I suggest that this looks rather drawish?
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #7 - 12/23/07 at 09:38:22
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JudgeDeath wrote on 12/17/07 at 19:50:58:
Can Black just castle back, after Nxd4/e5?

I like your recommendation. I needed some time to find for white the most promising line. Below you can find my conclusion.

1. e4, c5 2. Nf3, e6 3. d4, cd4: 4. Nd4:, a6 5. c4, Nf6 6. Nc3, Bb4 7. Bd3, Nc6 8. 0-0, Nd4: 9. e5, 0-0

I recommend 10. Be3 although 10. Bg5 and 10. ef6: are also interesting.
10. Be3 and now black has 2 paths A. 10.., Bc3: or B. 10. .., Nc6

A. 10..., Bc3: (10.., Nf5 is a transposition of the line I now give) 11. bc3:, Nf5 12. Bf5:, ef5: 13. ef6:, Qf6: 14. c5!, Qc3: 15. Re1 and the 2 pawns deficit are compensated by much better activity of the white pieces.

B. 10..., Nc6 11. ef6:, Qf6: 12. Qc2, Qh4 13. g3, Qh3 14. c5, f5 15. f4 and whites activity certainly compensates the one pawn deficit.
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #6 - 12/17/07 at 19:50:58
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Can Black just castle back, after Nxd4/e5?
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #5 - 12/17/07 at 04:32:17
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So no one is refuting this? =D
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #4 - 12/14/07 at 20:32:58
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I would rather have White. Black has to rely on his pawns and as soon as they advance White's queen will invade and pick up a few here and there. But if I am wrong, as so often, there is also 12.Rb1, see the initial post.
  

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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #3 - 12/14/07 at 07:35:26
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After 10.exf6, there is the intermediate move 10...Bxc3 and after 11.bxc3 Qxf6 there is no more Ne4 threats. However, White can try 12.Ba3, stopping Black from castling. However, my greedy engine believes that after 12...Qxc3 13.Bd6 Ne5 14.Be2 Nxc4 15.Rc1 Qxc1 16.Qxc1 Nxd6 Black is better. Any thoughts?
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #2 - 12/06/07 at 06:59:55
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drkodos wrote on 12/05/07 at 20:58:17:
After a quick look:

I think black can play  8. .... Qc7, threatening to take the knight next move without White's threat of e5, and then transposes into sub-main lines.  Not sure where that knight is going, but it isn't really busting on anything immediately, I think.  

Then what for white?  Now the knight sort of needs to retreat or exchange on c6, doesn't it?

Does a refusal of a sac somehow (by definition) mean it is not a refutation of it?



Well the fun only starts of course after accepting the sacrifice. 8.., Qc7 is possible but there have been changed some things.
1) The black queen committed herself to a square already. Which makes ideas with Qa5, Qf6 (once the knight has moved), ... impossible
2) After 8.., Qc7 9. Nc2 becomes possible and stronger than 8. Nc2 because white doesn't need to worry anymore about taking on c3 , followed up with d5 which equalises on the spot
3) After 8..., Qc7 9. Be3 is now stonger than immediately because after the standard reply 9.., Ne5 follows 10. Nf3, Nc4: 11. Bc4: , Qc4: 12. Na4! with strong threats
4) Also after 8.., Qc7 9. Nc6:, dc6: 10. e5 is still interesting although I must admit against a strong defense the pawnsacrifice looks a bit light.
5) After 8 .., Qc7 9. Bc2 Black has already committed to the Qc7 line which in comparison with 8..., Ne5 is regarded by theory as less good.
6) 9. Nf3 is more interesting than 8. Nf3 because the queen already committed to c7.
7) White can still choose to return to the mainline with 9. Nde2

Conclusion even if black doesn't accept the challenge then white has the benefit to bring black at least on unfamiliar ground very early in the game. I don't claim any advantage for white but lots of new unexplored possibilities which is exactly what a tournament player looks for.
  
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Re: Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
Reply #1 - 12/05/07 at 20:58:17
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After a quick look:

I think black can play  8. .... Qc7, threatening to take the knight next move without White's threat of e5, and then transposes into sub-main lines.  Not sure where that knight is going, but it isn't really busting on anything immediately, I think.  

Then what for white?  Now the knight sort of needs to retreat or exchange on c6, doesn't it?

Does a refusal of a sac somehow (by definition) mean it is not a refutation of it?

  

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Spectacular early novelty in the Paulsen/Kan
12/05/07 at 20:43:14
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By analysing one of my recent clubchampionshipgames I bumped on a spectacular novelty very early in the paulsen/kan system. I was surprised that in the almost 1000 games I found with the position, this move was never played. I must admit that it looks not logical at all.

1. e4, c5 2. Nf3, e6 3. d4, cd4: 4. Nd4:, a6 5. c4, Nf6 6. Nc3, Bb4 7. Bd3, Nc6 8. 0-0 N ??!!! Yes the knight on d4 hangs but things aren't so simple :

8 .., Nd4: (Of course black can refuse but then it will certainly not refute whites last move. On top refusing will mean that white gets extra time to find the optimal square for the knight.)
9. e5!, Nc6 (Giving back the piece is the best policy because after 9.., Ng8 follows 10. Qg4 which gives white a huge advantage)
10. ef6: and now black must choose between A. 10.., Qf6: or B. 10. .., Bc3:

A. 10.., Qf6: 11. Ne4!, Qe5 (11... , Qe7 is worse due to 12. a3.) 12. a3, Be7 13. Re1, f5 14. Nc3, Qf6 15. Bf4, 0-0 16. Bf1 and white has excellent compensation for the pawn

B. 10.., Bc3: 11. bc3:, Qf6 12. Rb1!, 0-0 13. Ba3 (13. Qc2 is also interesting see 13 ..., g6 14. Ba3, Re8 15. c5, Ne5 16. Be2, Nc6 17. Rfe1, Qe7 18. Qb3) , Rd8 14. Bd6, Qc3: 15. Rb3, Qf6 16. Qb1, g6 17. c5, Nd4 18. Qb2, Qg7 19. Rb6 with a very passive position for black and lots of compensation in both lines for white

Let me know if somebody is willing and able to test this in practice.
  
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