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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern (Read 13753 times)
Bibs
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #20 - 12/07/07 at 15:15:35
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Meat,

Your comments are interesting. I tend to agree - after being squashed some years ago as an unknowing white.
Bauer has some good stuff on this in his book.

e4 d6 d4 e5 de5 de5 Qd8: Kd8: ...

Just wondering - do you know of any decent strength IMs or GMs who punt this regularlyas black? Interested at looking at some games in this. Hope you can give some pointers.
Useful to punt this as an avoid-the-theory outplay-the-weakie system.

cheers
Bibs

  
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Meat
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #19 - 12/07/07 at 14:30:53
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Quote:
3. dxe5 dxe5 4. Qxd8+ Kxd8 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bc4 also looks good to me.


I know quite a few players who specialized in this endgame and think it gives them at least equal chances. As a matter of fact, they even have a positive score as black here, so maybe this line is not so clear at all.
  
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #18 - 12/07/07 at 13:04:26
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cma6 wrote on 12/06/07 at 23:42:43:
Antillian wrote on 12/06/07 at 23:02:25:
Note, after 1. d4 d6 2. e4, you are not bound to get a Pirc, you  also have to be prepared for 2...e5


In this case, what do you think White's best is?

Seems no-one answered this yet? 2...e5 just transposes to a Philidor, so 3. Nf3 and White is doing fine. 3. dxe5 dxe5 4. Qxd8+ Kxd8 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bc4 also looks good to me.
  
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JEH
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #17 - 12/07/07 at 09:39:35
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There are a lot of decent lines against the Pirc/Modern, but nothing that really stands out as best. Just pick something that suits your style.

If you play the Saemisch against the KID and want to  avoid the Pirc, there is

1. d4 d6 2. e4 Nf6 3. f3

Also there is the mildly annoying 1. d4 d6. 2. Bg5 if you want to wangle with move orders.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #16 - 12/07/07 at 07:17:48
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cma6 wrote on 12/06/07 at 16:57:33:
I would much prefer to play 2 c4, as I know and like White side of KID.

However, I have to keep in mind the warning given to me by strong Pirc/Modern players, including IM Larry Kaufman, that after 1 d4, d6; 2 c4?, Black equalizes; and they showed why.  After 1 d4, d6; they convinced me that White must play either 2 e4 or 2 Nf3. I would play 1 d4, d6; 2 e4

I am unaware of a line that gives black equality after 2.c4. Check some games by Glek after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3. He got his behind wooped by various white players.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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cma6
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #15 - 12/07/07 at 03:35:01
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[quote author=nmga link=1196956996/0#13 date=1196994242]It should perhaps be said that not everyone agrees that after 1 d4 d6 2 c4 is tantamount to an inaccuracy because of 2 ...e5. Markovich and parisestmagique, for instance, think 3 Nc3 ed 4 Qd4 favours White. I don't myself have a view on the matter, but I just thought I'd point this out.

Kasparov showed how to play this in Huebner-Kasparov, Hamburg, 1985, where K won in 28 moves. 4 Qd4, Nf6; 5 g3, Nc6; 6 Qd2, Be6;
7 Nd5, Ne5; 8 b3, Ne4; 9 Qe3, Nc5. Black looks at least equal.

Again, quoting IM Kaufman, "From a theoretical point of view after 1 d4, d6; 2 c4, e5; 3 Nf3 only3...e4 is of interest, otherwise White would be happy to enter this line. "
  
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #14 - 12/07/07 at 02:56:17
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At the risk of heading off-topic, is there something wrong with the line that Palliser gives in Play 1.d4?

1.d4 d6 2.c4 e5 3.d5 f5 4.e4 . . .
  
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #13 - 12/07/07 at 02:24:02
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It should perhaps be said that not everyone agrees that after 1 d4 d6 2 c4 is tantamount to an inaccuracy because of 2 ...e5. Markovich and parisestmagique, for instance, think 3 Nc3 ed 4 Qd4 favours White. I don't myself have a view on the matter, but I just thought I'd point this out.

Actually, I've just invented a completely new move in this position: 3 Nc3 Qe7!!, so chk was right all along!
  
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #12 - 12/07/07 at 02:00:01
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cma6 wrote on 12/07/07 at 01:11:47:
Be3/150 - well, any repertoire book really. Emms, Summerscale, Kaufman.
For how black players may respond - check Vigus' bible. The Dr James rather than St James version. An excellent and very thorough work.
Also Davies' DVD.
Are you referring to "The Pirc in Black and White" - James Vigus?

As far as I know, those repertoire books only investigate the 150, that is with an early Nf3. As I have argued many times most dangerous is 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 c6 (0-0 6.0-0-0 7.f3 c6 8.h4!) 6.Bh6. After 6.Nf3 Qa5 7.h3 Nbd7 8.Bd3 0-0 9.0-0 e5 play is like the Classical.
4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be3 0-0 6.Qd2 e5 7.0-0-0 Qe7 is another reason to leave the knight on g1 for a couple of moves.
James Vigus' books seems the best source, also for 4.Be3 c6 (eg the Archbishop Attack 5.h3 Bg7 6.g4).
  

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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #11 - 12/07/07 at 01:37:01
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cma6

Vigus: 'Pirc in Black and white'
yes, that's right.

Apologies - made a religious slip earlier - King James rather than St James naturally. Amended. Forgive - am at work.
  
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cma6
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #10 - 12/07/07 at 01:11:47
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For anti-Pirc I suggest Austrian, Be3/150, or Bg5.

Austrian - sources More than enough in Khalif.

Be3/150 - well, any repertoire book really. Emms, Summerscale, Kaufman. Some good analysis earlier here on cpub.
For Bg5 - Collins has a little. But too little. But best check Nakamura games. He slaughtered me in this a few months back. Not cricket to reveal post mortem discussion, but Bg5 is more dangerous than some books indicate. Needs careful treatment.

For how black players may respond - check Vigus' bible. The Dr James rather than St James version. An excellent and very thorough work.
Also Davies' DVD.

Are you referring to "The Pirc in Black and White" - James Vigus?


Bibs, thanks for the very useful post.
  
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #9 - 12/07/07 at 00:52:07
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For anti-Pirc I suggest Austrian, Be3/150, or Bg5.

Austrian - sources are Carpathian Warrior (a3 line) and El Khalif. More than enough in Khalif.

Be3/150 - well, any repertoire book really. Emms, Summerscale, Kaufman. Some good analysis earlier here on cpub.

For Bg5 - Collins has a little. But too little. But best check Nakamura games. He slaughtered me in this a few months back. Not cricket to reveal post mortem discussion, but Bg5 is more dangerous than some books indicate. Needs careful treatment.

For how black players may respond - check Vigus' bible. The Dr James rather than King James version. An excellent and very thorough work.
Also Davies' DVD.

Festive regards

Bibs
  
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cma6
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #8 - 12/06/07 at 23:42:43
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Antillian wrote on 12/06/07 at 23:02:25:
Note, after 1. d4 d6 2. e4, you are not bound to get a Pirc, you  also have to be prepared for 2...e5


In this case, what do you think White's best is?
  
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #7 - 12/06/07 at 23:02:25
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Note, after 1. d4 d6 2. e4, you are not bound to get a Pirc, you  also have to be prepared for 2...e5
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: Preparation for White against Pirc/Modern
Reply #6 - 12/06/07 at 22:52:25
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So do you think that Khalifman's book will give me enough material for White against a booked up GM playing the Pirc or Modern?
  
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