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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Forcing a Modern Benoni? (Read 6835 times)
flaviddude
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #12 - 12/27/07 at 11:50:30
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I have been playing the modern Benoni for many years. I think that Watson's book is very very good. His work on the modern main line appears to have had a big effect on the move order adopted by players of the modern main line. In my opinion anyone who plays this as white should follow the move order suggested by Watson.

I thought that the reason players played the move order 
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 was to avoid the berserk attacking lines especially the flick knife attack. As has been pointed out many players transpose to the Nimzo-Indian after 3.Nc3 Bb4 and after 3.Nf3 c5 they have avoided several aggressive lines.  However the modern main line requires considerable care especially in correspondence play.
  
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sssthepro
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #11 - 12/21/07 at 08:21:48
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Ok thanks. I will read up on how to play middlegame positions
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #10 - 12/21/07 at 06:37:38
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At the risk of sounding snide: at some point, the Opening ends and the Middlegame begins.  The opening of your game wasn't exactly cutting edge theory, and a fairly standard Benoni middlegame was reached.  Perhaps you should read a middlegame book like Pawn Power in Chess or (my personal favourite) Pawn Structure Chess by Soltis; that might help you to navigate these late opening positions better  (there are also other middlegame books that would help).

15.Bxe5 is perhaps not best, though if you then played 16.b4!? (this looks like the consistent idea) then the game's more interesting.  My first impression is just the straightforward 15.Nxe5 de 16.Bh6, when 16...Nd6 can be met with 17.Bxg7 Kxg7 and then possibly 18.b4.  Maybe 16.Be3 Nd6 17.b4 is even better...anyway I don't have the time to really analyze the game, but my point is that you'd probably do better to just study some typical Benoni middlegames and plans than look for "theory" here.  At some point you need to come with a real, concrete plan instead of moves like 16.Rad1 (are you going to push that pawn anytime soon with a knight sitting on d6?  You should try to open lines on the Q-side in this semi-KID or Grunfeld like position).

Bear in mind that my moves given above are just first impressions, but that I'm very serious about stopping trying to play the opening and just come up with a reasonable middlegame plan.  You can't figure everything out ahead of time, and your opponent will always get you out of book eventually.  You had a good position with 15.Nxe5 (I think); what more do you want from an opening?  You've got a slight edge--now go play some chess!
  
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sssthepro
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #9 - 12/21/07 at 00:10:28
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Sorry for my mistake. I have changed it. Can you guys help me now?
  
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #8 - 12/20/07 at 18:15:44
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Maybe the unexpected check sowed confusion in the ranks of both sides, causing the mishmash of moves that followed.
  
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #7 - 12/20/07 at 18:06:30
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sssthepro wrote on 12/20/07 at 01:41:54:
Thanks. However, I recently played a game and my opponent played this.

1. d4 Nf3 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 exd5 4. cxd5 d6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Nf3 Bg7 7. e4 a6 8. h3 b5 9. Bd3 Nf6 10. O-O O-O 11. a3 Qc7 12. Bf4(Maybe I should play 12.Re1 here, but I am not sure whether there is a huge difference. One is that after 12. Bf4 I cannot play the Morozevich idea.) Ne8!?

Dunno about this move...


I dunno either, but 2.c4 was illegal, since White's king was in check.
  
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #6 - 12/20/07 at 02:06:24
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And I have checked the game. It seems that Black has several ways to achieve a good position instead of 11...Bf5?!
  
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sssthepro
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #5 - 12/20/07 at 01:41:54
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Thanks. However, I recently played a game and my opponent played this.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 c5 4. d5 exd5 5. cxd5 d6 6. Nc3 g6 7. e4 a6 8. h3 b5 9.a3 Bg7 10. Bd3 0-0 11. 0-0 Qc7 12. Bf4(Maybe I should play 12.Re1 here, but I am not sure whether there is a huge difference. One is that after 12. Bf4 I cannot play the Morozevich idea.) Ne8!?

Dunno about this move, never seen it before during my game. I thought he wanted to play 13...f5, so I played 13.Re1 to stop that because of the hanging e8 knight. Then 13...Nbd7 14.Qd2(14.Re1!?) Ne5. Here, I think I played wrongly, and played 15.Bxe5 dxe5 16.Rad1. My idea was that now the g7 bishop is bad and that I have a passed pawn on d5. However, the e8 knight shows its strength here. It can go to d6. In the end, I got a really bad position but managed to outplay(maybe swindle is a better word Cheesy) my opponent and won the game. However, it seems that I played the opening wrongly, so I went home and checked on it. I think maybe White should play 15.Be2 (Just like in Modern Benoni mainlines where Black played ...Ne5) Nxf3 16.Bxf3. However, I am not sure whether White has an advantage here. Black can play 16...Be5 17.Bh6(the passed pawn, as mentioned, is not that dangerous) Bg7 18.Be2(I want to get in f4. I cannot find other constructive plans for White) f5! I think I like Black's position. I found a similar game from my database:

[Event "Balaton Summer op"]
[Site "Balatonlelle"]
[Date "2002.06.27"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Markus, Robert"]
[Black "Tolnai, Tibor"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A70"]
[WhiteElo "2477"]
[BlackElo "2494"]
[PlyCount "57"]
[EventDate "2002.06.21"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "HUN"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2003.11.25"]

1. d4 e6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 exd5 4. cxd5 d6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Nf3 Bg7 7. e4 a6 8. h3 b5 9. Bd3 Nf6 10. O-O O-O 11. a3 Nbd7 12. Bf4 Ne8 13. Re1 Bb7 14. Qd2 Rc8 15. Rad1 Nb6 16. e5 Nxd5 17. Nxd5 Bxd5 18. Be4 Bxe4 19. Rxe4 Qe7 20. Re2 d5 21. Qxd5 Nc7 22. Qd6 Rfe8 23. Red2 Ne6 24. Be3 Qb7 25. Qd7 Qa8 26. Qd5 Qb8 27. Qd6 Qa8 28.Qd5 Qb8 29. Qd6 1/2-1/2

Ok, there is the same ...Ne8 move, but there is no ...Ne5 followup. Does anyone have any idea on how to play this variation? Thanks. 

« Last Edit: 12/21/07 at 00:11:09 by sssthepro »  
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Stigma
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #4 - 12/19/07 at 19:36:11
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mefisto6 wrote on 12/19/07 at 12:09:43:
I If you play 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 then black can indeed avoid the modern main line 3. .. c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6. h3 Qe7 or 6. e4 a6. These lines are analysed in detail in Watson's "Gambit guide to the modern Benoni".


This depends what you men by "modern main line"; does White absolutely have to prevent ...b5? White is doing very well in practice with 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Nc3 g6 7.e4 a6 (or several other possible move orders) and now instead of 8.a4 Bg4!, simply 8.h3 b5 9.Bd3.  Though I haven't seen Watson's analysis of this, there was an important game in the July 2007 update:

[Event "TCh-ESP Honor Gp1"]
[Site "Lugo ESP"]
[Date "2007.06.21"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Morozevich, A."]
[Black "Miroshnichenko, E."]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A70"]
[WhiteElo "2762"]
[BlackElo "2646"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 c5 4. d5 d6 5. Nc3 exd5 6. cxd5 g6 7. e4 a6 8. h3 b5 9. Bd3 Bg7 10. O-O O-O 11. a3 Re8 12. Re1 Ra7 13. b4 Nbd7 14. Bd2 Rc7 15. Rb1 Nb6 16. bxc5 Rxc5 17. Na2 Nc4 18. Bb4 Rc7 19. Bxc4 Rxc4 20. Nd2 Nxe4 21. Nxc4 bxc4 22. Rc1 a5 23. Rxc4 axb4 24. Rcxe4 Rxe4 25. Rxe4 bxa3 26. Qa4 Be5 27. Qxa3 Bf5 28. Re1 Qh4 29. Qb4 Qg5 30. Re3 h5 31. Qc4 Bf4 32. Re8+ Kg7 33. Qc3+ Be5 34. Rxe5 dxe5 35. Qxe5+ Qf6 36. f4 g5 37. Nb4 Kg6 38. Nc6 Qxe5 39. fxe5 Be4 40.Ne7+ Kg7 41. d6 Kf8 42. Ng8 Bc6 43. Nf6 1-0

Perhaps this is something ssthepro should look into?
  
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #3 - 12/19/07 at 13:19:43
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The Qe7 line is no panacea for Black, White is definitely += after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6. Nc3 Bg7 7. h3 a6 8. a4 Qe7 : see Palliser's recent update a few months back.
  
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sssthepro
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #2 - 12/19/07 at 12:57:33
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Sorry, you are right, I mean the Modern Benoni Mainline with Bd3 and h3. 

There is a problem about delaying Nf3 for me. If Black plays 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 then I have to play 3.Nf3 c5, because I don't play the Nimzo Indian mainlines Sad.
  
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mefisto6
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Re: Forcing a Modern Benoni?
Reply #1 - 12/19/07 at 12:09:43
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I guess you are talking about forcing the modern main line of the modern Benoni.
The modern benoni starts from
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6
The modern main line is the setup with Bd3, e4, h3, Nf3.
If you play 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 then black can indeed avoid the modern main line 3. .. c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6. h3 Qe7 or 6. e4 a6. These lines are analysed in detail in Watson's "Gambit guide to the modern Benoni".
White can force the modern main line if he delays Nf3
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.h3
7. .. a6 is bad here because of f4.
  
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sssthepro
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Forcing a Modern Benoni?
12/19/07 at 11:42:49
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Hi all,

I was checking 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Nf3 g6 7.e4 a6!?, where Black avoided the Modern Benoni. because 8.a4 runs into 8...Bg4. However, I really like the Modern Benoni a lot, therefore I was looking for ways to prevent Black from avoiding it. One way I found was to delay Nf3 and play moves like h3 and Bd3 first. However, I will run into a problem if Black plays 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3(I play this line) c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6. I checked through the Chesspublishing games and found Lautier-Vaisser 2002, where White played 6.Nc3 g6 7.h3. John Emms did not write give any variation other than 7...Bg7 as in the game, so I did a bit of my own analysis:

7...Bf5 8.e4! does not work because of the fork on a4

However, 7...a6! 8.a4(Now there is no more fork) Bf5 looks alright 9.Nh4 Bd7 10.e4 Nxe4!

7...Qe7 8.Bg5 Maybe



Another possibility is 6.e4, making use of the a4 fork again. If 6...g6 7.h3 Qe7 8.Nc3 a6, then 9.Bb3 b5 10.0-0 White transposes to the the variation where White allowed Black to expand on the queenside. However, Black seems to have his queen misplaced on e7, so I think White would be able to benefit from this. 

But 6...a6 again poses problems if White wants to remain in the Modern Benoni. 

What I want to know is, does any of the ideas above work(I have given some solutions to allow Black to continue avoiding the Modern Benoni, but maybe I missed out something somewhere)? Also, if none of the ideas above work, are there any ideas that work?

Comments would be welcome. Thanks in advance.
  
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