I appreciate the confirmation my little discovery Dr. Vigus. 

I hope you take it upon yourself to explore the Bird Opening further as your academic training and skill shines powerfully through your work. 

To ask me to distill new information on the From or Bird , from the latest Birdbase, accidently reveals my crude understanding of this whole opening system. Your work in this area has merely enabled me an opportunity to press my nose against the theory house window. Even then I can only get a fleeting glimpse of what is happening. 

Again, I sincerely appreciate what you have done for me and the other readers of your articles. I'm sorry I can't offer anything of further use to you. Again, I do hope you will find the time to offer us more on the Bird and From in the future. 

Maybe you and GM Danielsen could collaborate on something of mutual interest. I'd love to be around to read the results of that kind of broadening in your network.

I've finished reading/studying the articles written by Dr. James Vigus -- Dangerous Weapons: Flank Openings (Larsen's Antidote to the From and Beware the Polar Bear) -- and would like to thank him for his fine work and great writing style that I very much enjoyed.

I had to spend quite a bit of time looking at the note to B) p.223 5...Nc6 6.e3 Ng4 7. Ne4 Be7 looking at a better alternative for Black before I realized that 7.Qe2! actually threatens to transpose into the diagram 24 B if Black insists on play ...Nc3-e5. In fact, I think this (5...Nc6) is a transpositional trick that White has to be wary about in the Neo From. 

I used this position in a ChessBase search through Sid Pickard's most recent BirdBase and found quite a few games. From looking at the list, I realized that GM H. Danielsen has played 6.e3 in this position in 2004 (as opposed to 6.e4 in 1997) so 5...Nc6 might be quiet but it is definitely tricky. I now think 5...Nc6 is a sly way for Black to trick White out of the option of getting diagram 24 B, p.223, on the chess board.

With this point in mind the note a) near the bottom of p.218 may have to be reconsidered. Against 4...Nc6 maybe White should play 5.e3! and get ready to meet 5...Nf6 with 6.Nc3! and 6...Ng4 with 7.Qe2!  This is one instance where I can appreciate Larsen's concept of the "only moves" in the From/Neo From.

Of course, all of this assumes the diagram position 24 B, p.223 is what White finds acceptable. I can't see why not.

By the way, the computers don't easily find moves like Qe2 in the From or Neo-From. That is interesting and, to me, vaguely suggests a flaw in opening programming.

I hope I haven't missed anything here. If that is the case, enlighten me please.

Fritz 10's openings book offers 6...Nc6 as an alternative to 6...Bxe5 but I'm not sure of how good that is (the book move is 7 Bf4 which offers Black a fairly easy game, but 7 Qd3 is also possible for instance).

After 6...Bxe5 7 dxe5 Qxd1+ 8 Kxd1 Nc6 Fritz considers 9 Nc3 to be far preferable to 9 Bf4 after a short think.

well d4 g4 Ne5 Bxe5 dxe5 Qxd1+ Kxd1 seems alot safer and g3 g4 Nh4 runs into alot of trouble giving black huge counterplay for the pawn... I mean you're basically telling black he has to prove his pawn gambit which is what most gambiters would love to hear. I find white rarely can prove he is better because of the pawn but again this is a matter of taste whether to go for the unclear position over the safe and sound lines. At any rate I had a question in the d4 g4 line I was not stating it superior. 

SWJediknight wrote on 05/21/08 at 13:39:41:
Interesting I shall have to examine this. I had never considered such a line because 7. e4 looks so menancing. The mere thought makes me cringe but I shall have to play this sometime.

My impression was always that 5 d4 g4 6 Ne5 gave Black sufficient compensation (I've played the Black side of this before, but continued with 6...Qe7 or 6...Qf6 rather than 6...Bxe5, and got good positions).  The critical response is indeed 5 g3 g4 6 Nh4, with the idea of meeting Ne7-g6 with Nxg6.  I don't have Timothy's book, but recall reviews saying that he thinks White can emerge with advantage in this line with accurate play.  Hence the chaotic 4...Nf6 5 d4 Ng4 is often preferred.

I like the look of 1 f4 Nc6, especially as these days I prefer to play the 2...Nc6 variant of the From, and often play the 3...Nc6 variation of the Kings Gambit Accepted with Black.  I may give this a closer look at some point.  I first wondered what Black would do after 1 f4 Nc6 2 Nf3 e5 3 Nxe5, but then 3...Nxe5 4 fxe5 Qh4+ looks very strong.
Btw, after 1 f4 Nc6 2 d4 e5 3 dxe5 (instead of 3 fxe5 transposing to the From), Black should continue in From Gambit style with 3...d6 IMO, rather than the usually-recommended 3...f6 which is better for White after 4 Nf3! fxe5 5 fxe5.

I think he meant 5. g3 g4 6. Nh4 

where black has PLENTY of counterplay for the pawn. To accept this variation over another is a matter of taste... to follow timothy taylor blindly is stupid especially since the variations he barely covers or addresses are the From.... plenty of better resources for the Birds have been posted in this thread including the link I posted above which I think Bird's lovers or enthusiasts will have much enjoyment.

thibdb13 wrote on 05/21/08 at 11:23:00:


For more details, you can have a look at Taylor's book about the Bird