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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) what to play against the ruy lopez? (Read 13756 times)
Dragan Glas
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #19 - 02/20/08 at 11:08:04
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Greetings,

wcywing
See the Chessville Review of Beating the Petroff.

It ONLY covers the 3.Nxe5, d6; 4.Nf3 line, which is what the authors recommend as White's answer to the Petroff.

However, it would give you a good idea of what you might face, as the book is recent (2004).

The best part, as the reviewer points out, is the sections covering typical middle-game and endgame positions/play.

Quite cheap too from Amazon

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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wcywing
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #18 - 02/20/08 at 06:00:01
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the first book that got me started on the petroff was open games except ruy lopez, it had several authors, made in early 80's.  the other petroff book i have is the one by haag and forintos.  it is good but mainly lines, very little annotation.  most petroff books don't cover 4NG and the 3. Bc4 lines.  but NCO seems to cover that well.  however 

i will look at some of the Bc5 lines against the ruy lopez, maybe the classical or the Moller/new archangel, just to vary my lines.  i might get the everyman book and beating the petroff, even though i will probaly play the cochrane gambit.
  
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Dragan Glas
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #17 - 02/17/08 at 16:30:08
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Greetings,

wcywing
Best to stick with what you're already familiar.

I don't know which books on the Petroff you have...

Janjgva's book, published by Gambit, appears the least confusing - there doesn't seem to be any books which actually explain the ideas behind it, they all seem to concentrate on reams of variations.

[Having said that, perhaps Watson's Mastering the Modern Chess Openings is the one for anyone wishing to gain a insight into the ideas behind this and the other openings.]

Raetsky's/Chetverik's (Everyman) and Yusupov's (Olms) books are more advanced than the average club player - particularly the latter, which is encyclopaedic and would best suit a Karmnik or Yusupov (who is a Petroff-specialist)!

The only other book is written from White's perspective - Beating the Petroff by Kotronias and Tzermiadianos (Batsford) - though it does contain good descriptions of themes, etc.

It is also for the stronger club/advanced player but not as advanced or as confusing as either of the other two.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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wcywing
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #16 - 02/17/08 at 12:03:55
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i will probaly study using nco, i will probaly go back to the petroff,  seems to be in vogue now   Grin  i will study ruy lopez, just to be a complete chess player.
  
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Dragan Glas
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #15 - 02/09/08 at 20:28:48
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Greetings,

kylemeister wrote on 02/09/08 at 20:14:34:
lg wrote on 02/09/08 at 19:49:26:
I woñder whether soemeone knows any analysis (books , etc) on the 
3 lines with Bc5 suggested by Dragan Glas, from the black point of view

Bc5 in the spanish always atracted me from a black point of view
(although, sometimes, Bg5 for White is a bit bothersome)


There's a book on the Archangel and New Archangel (maybe the latter takes in the Möller*) by Polish IM Panczyk, though it is some years old now.  Those are mainstream lines; some of that early ...Bc5 stuff is more offbeat and might be found in a book like Glenn Flear's "Offbeat Ruy Lopez."  Then there are of course books like ECO (which incidentally Flear recently wrote that he still uses).


*yes, I know it's supposed to have the o with a line through it, but I only know how to type the Swedish version

kylemeister, if you use Firefox, there's a add-on called Zombie Keys, which enables you to "type" these characters using special key combinations.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Dragan Glas
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #14 - 02/09/08 at 20:20:17
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Greetings,

Strange you should ask... Smiley

I'd been looking for some information myself and found Markovich's articles on these...:

Recommendations against the Spanish
The Classical Defence to the Spanish - Part 1

There are links within the latter to subsequent parts.

[I trust, Markovich, that you don't mind my posting these!?]

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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kylemeister
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #13 - 02/09/08 at 20:14:34
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lg wrote on 02/09/08 at 19:49:26:
I woñder whether soemeone knows any analysis (books , etc) on the 
3 lines with Bc5 suggested by Dragan Glas, from the black point of view

Bc5 in the spanish always atracted me from a black point of view
(although, sometimes, Bg5 for White is a bit bothersome)


There's a book on the Archangel and New Archangel (maybe the latter takes in the Möller*) by Polish IM Panczyk, though it is some years old now.  Those are mainstream lines; some of that early ...Bc5 stuff is more offbeat and might be found in a book like Glenn Flear's "Offbeat Ruy Lopez."  Then there are of course books like ECO (which incidentally Flear recently wrote that he still uses).


*yes, I know it's supposed to have the o with a line through it, but I only know how to type the Swedish version
  
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lg
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #12 - 02/09/08 at 19:49:26
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I woñder whether soemeone knows any analysis (books , etc) on the 
3 lines with Bc5 suggested by Dragan Glas, from the black point of view

Bc5 in the spanish always atracted me from a black point of view
(although, sometimes, Bg5 for White is a bit bothersome)
  
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CheckMate
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #11 - 02/09/08 at 15:07:37
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The Zaitzev, yes I like this defense!
However the sharp lines Markovic refers to (12. a4 h6 13.Bc2 cd 14. cd Nb4 15. Bb1 c5 I presume) don't occur often in typical OTB chess games. Instead you will see lots of positional lines (11. ed, 12. d5, 12. Bc2 and 12. a3) in most of your games. That's fine with me, I don't seek razor sharp positions in every game. For me the Zaitzev is mainly a dependable system against the Lopez, it can be a bit dull but at least it's a system which I have used for 15 years and I'm too lazy to learn something new.
Also be prepared to meet an occasional 11. Ng5  Rf8 12. f4?!, you know it's really played at club level.   
  
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Markovich
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #10 - 02/09/08 at 13:38:54
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DoubledPawns wrote on 02/09/08 at 07:39:36:
If you want to play the Open Spanish while avoiding the Exchange Variation, then I can suggest the following line: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 (Against the solid 4.d3 you can consider 4...Ne7!? with the idea 5.Ne5? c6 winning a piece in view of ...Qa5) 4...Ne4 5.d4 and instead of playing the Berlin Wall with 5...Nd6, consider 5...a6!?. White's best move is then 6.Ba4, after which 6...d5 7.de5 Be6 is the Open Spanish. Remembered this line from Soltis's excellent book "Transpo Tricks in Chess". 

As you will see in the above book, Giovanni Vescovi (a strong GM), when faced with this line, played the inferior 6.Bc6?!, obtaining a worse position out of the opening as White! For more info on this and many other variations, buy the book!


Old, old hat.  We hardly needed Soltis to tell us this.  But I suppose his doing so will benefit some people.  I think though that someone has to be pretty unhappy with Black's side of the Exchange before risking the dull game that emerges from 5.Re1 versus the Berlin.
  

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DoubledPawns
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1.a3 e5 2.Nc3 Ba3 3.Ne4
Bf8 4.Ra5 Ke7 5.Re5#

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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #9 - 02/09/08 at 07:39:36
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If you want to play the Open Spanish while avoiding the Exchange Variation, then I can suggest the following line: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 (Against the solid 4.d3 you can consider 4...Ne7!? with the idea 5.Ne5? c6 winning a piece in view of ...Qa5) 4...Ne4 5.d4 and instead of playing the Berlin Wall with 5...Nd6, consider 5...a6!?. White's best move is then 6.Ba4, after which 6...d5 7.de5 Be6 is the Open Spanish. Remembered this line from Soltis's excellent book "Transpo Tricks in Chess". 

As you will see in the above book, Giovanni Vescovi (a strong GM), when faced with this line, played the inferior 6.Bc6?!, obtaining a worse position out of the opening as White! For more info on this and many other variations, buy the book!
  

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something - Plato
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Dragan Glas
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #8 - 02/09/08 at 05:05:25
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Greetings,

wcywing
There are other lines involving a earlier ..., Bc5, which are more forcing than the Archangel.

Ruy Lopez Variations combining 3...a6 and ...Bc5

The Classical Defence Deferred - 3...a6; 4.Ba4 Bc5;
The Graz Defence - 3...a6; 4.Ba4 b5; 5.Bb3 Bc5;
The Møller Defence - 3...a6; 4.Ba4 Nf6; 5.0-0 Bc5;

Also, there's at least one other forcing line - though not involving ..., Bc5;

Open Defence - 3...a6; 4.Ba4 Nf6; 5.0-0 Nxe4;

Any of these would do - assuming you're looking for something more "forcing" than the Marshall. [I gave up 1..., e5 because I could never get to the Marshall!  Roll Eyes My "forcing" defence is the Sicilian!  Wink ]

As you're no doubt aware, the last of the above variations - if not all - is highly tactical.

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Markovich
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #7 - 02/08/08 at 17:45:05
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rossia wrote on 02/08/08 at 17:12:09:
You can't have both worlds: either closed or sharp lines! Wink


I'm not sure about that.  The main lines of the Zaitsev are quite sharp, for example.
  

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rossia
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #6 - 02/08/08 at 17:12:09
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You can't have both worlds: either closed or sharp lines! Wink
  
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wcywing
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Re: what to play against the ruy lopez?
Reply #5 - 02/08/08 at 15:48:14
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most ruy lopez lines seem to be bookish, but with the archangel, black can play that sooner than a marshall or closed main line.  do b5 followed by a Bc5.  however it is more tactical than most spainish games.
  
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