Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Grand Prix Attack - G Jones (Read 18391 times)
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10506
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #24 - 10/31/08 at 20:24:26
Post Tools
urusov wrote on 10/31/08 at 16:06:41:
The only caveat is that, for me personally, I find the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4(?!) too easy for Black and therefore generally switch to an open Sicilian against that -- as well as against 2...a6.  So if you want to play the GP, you really have to be willing to put in the time to build your own repertoire.

I agree completely. This made me conclude that White saves time and effort in the end by chosing the Open Sicilian against 2...Nc6 and 2...d6 too; he can build a repertoire around 6.g3, 6.Be2, 6.Bc4 or a clever mix. As Urusov implies, White has more choice himself then. It will be less work than maintaining a repertoire with the GP, that includes a few Open Sicilians as well.
Eg Urusov possibly allows the Najdorf after 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.Nf3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
urusov
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 147
Location: Kenilworth
Joined: 08/04/05
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #23 - 10/31/08 at 16:06:41
Post Tools
I borrowed the Gawain Jones book from a friend and thought it was fairly good for a Starting Out book.  At the very least, it annotates some very interesting games, some of which are not in my database --or I had not seen them before (including many recent games, some of the author's own games, and games from the British Chess League which are not always published).  But the book does not offer a wide-ranging analysis of the specific lines it covers.  Like most opening books these days, it is really a repertoire book.  All lines begin 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3, so the author can skip the Tal Gambit, but there is some variety within that -- including both Bc4 and Bb5 lines.  Probably the greatest added value of the book is its discussion of 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5!? but I was disappointed that after 3...Nd4 he only discusses 4.Bc4 and not 4.Nf3!? for instance.  So there is a lot of material not covered at all, without even a sense of what the alternatives are that are left out -- but that seems pretty much par for the course these days in opening books.  I did like some of his specific choices and think it is certainly a corrective (or important addition for amateurs) to "Chess Openings for White, Explained," so it would be worth having if you have used that book previously to build your GP repertoire.

I have built my own anti-Sicilian repertoire around the GP, but the surprising thing is that only about four of the games connect to my repertoire at all.  So clearly it is not a very wide ranging book or a deep analysis of many lines.  But I think that anyone below 2000 rating who is thinking of adding the GP to their repertoire would find it a useful starting point, so it is definitely well suited to the audience and purpose.  More serious players will find little of value.

As for the status of the GP: it is basically the same as the Closed Sicilian generally.  Not a lot of GMs play it, mostly because Black has too much choice in how to react and there are too many lines that seem to have been analyzed to equality at the highest levels. But that does not mean it is not still a very viable weapon for amateurs. If it suits your style, I'd say try it.  The only caveat is that, for me personally, I find the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4(?!) too easy for Black and therefore generally switch to an open Sicilian against that -- as well as against 2...a6.  So if you want to play the GP, you really have to be willing to put in the time to build your own repertoire.  None of the GP repertoire books -- which are compelled for marketing purposes to keep things in GP territory -- cover Open Sicilian transpositions.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
RandomPatzer
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 15
Joined: 09/06/08
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #22 - 10/23/08 at 00:22:37
Post Tools
I don't think white has anything better than 5.Nf3 after 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 Bg7 4.Bb5 Nd4. (playing for c3 is impossible because the N is there). I assume the idea is to transpose, (presumably none of blacks options are better than 5...Bg7), whilst avoiding the 5...Na5 line (4...Na5?! 5.d4! cxd4 6.Qxd4 is good for white).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GabrielGale
Senior Member
****
Offline


Who was Thursday?

Posts: 471
Location: Sydney
Joined: 02/28/08
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #21 - 10/19/08 at 14:44:56
Post Tools
Sorry guys, my mistake.  Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed
In the old books, the moves are 1 e4 c5 2 f4 Nc6 3 Nf3 g6 4 Bb5. I misread Nf3 for Nc3. Of course the explanation for Bg7, exchange of Nd4, cxd4 attacking c3-N only works if knight is actually on c3. In the old line, the knight isn't on c3 and W does not lose a tempo if B plays Nd4.

Of course this does is not the case in the line given by Topnotch: 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 g6 4.Bb5. Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed

I suppose if B plays Nd4, there is no possibility of Nxd4 cxd4 and no loss of tempo having to move c3-Knight. The question is whether it is worthwhile for B to play Nd4. As Mnb pointed out there is no Nxf3+. Otherwise B is stuck with Bxc6 dxc6 and B ends up with bad position.
  

http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3150
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #20 - 10/19/08 at 13:40:12
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 10/19/08 at 13:16:38:
Maybe it has something to do with 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 g6 4.Bb5 Nd4 5.Bd3 and 6.c3 as ...Nxf3+ is not available now.

6.c3 sounds like a good idea, except it's illegal. Are there other move-orders where White gets to play c3 early?
MNb wrote on 10/19/08 at 13:16:38:
I would like to know how Tigrano meets 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6.

A quick search/browse (there are only 1230 "Tigrano" games with eco=b23!) turns up some recent games with the move orders (2.Nc3 e6)
3.f4 Nc6 4.Bb5 and
3.f4 d5 4.Bb5+!? Bd7 5.exd5 Bxb5 6.Nxb5 exd5 7.Qe2+ Be7 8.Qe5.

He has also occasionally played 2.Nc3 e6 3.Nf3 and 4.d4 (a practice he shares with Gawain Jones).
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10506
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #19 - 10/19/08 at 13:16:38
Post Tools
Maybe it has something to do with 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 g6 4.Bb5 Nd4 5.Bd3 and 6.c3 as ...Nxf3+ is not available now.

I would like to know how Tigrano meets 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3150
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #18 - 10/19/08 at 13:11:35
Post Tools
GabrielGale wrote on 10/19/08 at 12:14:40:
That move order is treated in the older books by Nigel Davies ((1985, 1988 (2ed) and Hodgson and Day (1985). As I understand it, playing an early positional Bb5 is to prevent Black's Nd4 since B hasn't managed to fianchetto the King bishop as yet (Bg7). Davies suggest if W plays 4 Bb5 and B plays 4...Bg7, then W responds with 5 Bxc6 and theory says that B has a bad position (possibly losing).

I didn't get your point with ...Nd4 here (and I don't have those older GPA books). Why can't Black meet 4.Bb5 with ....Nd4? After all, Nd4 is the standard answer to both 3.Bb5 and 5.Bb5. Am I missing some obvious tactic here?!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GabrielGale
Senior Member
****
Offline


Who was Thursday?

Posts: 471
Location: Sydney
Joined: 02/28/08
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #17 - 10/19/08 at 12:14:40
Post Tools
For what its worth the ICC number one Grand Prix Attack player, Tigrano, real name Tigran Petrosian, no relation to the late one unless he's channeling, seems to prefer the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 g6 4.Bb5 for some reason, but I am unaware what that reason is.

Toppy Smiley [/quote]

That move order is treated in the older books by Nigel Davies ((1985, 1988 (2ed) and Hodgson and Day (1985). As I understand it, playing an early positional Bb5 is to prevent Black's Nd4 since B hasn't managed to fianchetto the King bishop as yet (Bg7). Davies suggest if W plays 4 Bb5 and B plays 4...Bg7, then W responds with 5 Bxc6 and theory says that B has a bad position (possibly losing).

@bob000 Can you point me to the page where Lane refers to 5...Na5 as playable. I have the book and couldn't find it.
  

http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rooksway18
Junior Member
**
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 94
Location: USA
Joined: 12/18/03
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #16 - 10/17/08 at 06:39:14
Post Tools
TopNotch wrote on 02/10/08 at 20:53:34:
Does he cover 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Bb5 Na5!? or ?!. This rare continuation looks playable enough and hardly seems to have been touched by theory.

Toppy Smiley



Not suprised you have taken an interest in 5...Na5, Toppy.

This is what I currently use and I've been very happy with it as black.  It does seem to be rarely mentioned, which suits me just fine, since I was able to figure out the ideas from common sense and Gufeld's game.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bob000
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 54
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #15 - 02/29/08 at 22:32:09
Post Tools
He covers 2. f4 lines recomending the trading light squares bishops in the Tal line but black looks fine to me. He recommends transposing back to 2.Nc3 lines aganinst an e6 setup.

As for 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Bb5 Na5 he mentions it as playable for black, akin to a dragon setup but his line ends with 6.d4

Oops. I'm apparently talking about the other 176 GPA book, the one by lane.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The King
Full Member
***
Offline


Give me convenience or
give me death

Posts: 173
Location: Dublin
Joined: 01/08/05
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #14 - 02/28/08 at 12:47:57
Post Tools
This is probably a bit off topic but how does the GPA compare theoretically with the other main Anti-Sicilians?  You seem to see tons of people playing 2.c3, the Closed or Bb5 but not the GPA.

Why is this?

Or maybe I just haven't seen many people playing it!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2040
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #13 - 02/28/08 at 01:32:50
Post Tools
DoubledPawns wrote on 02/13/08 at 08:12:34:
I will be curious to see what improvements Gawain has over Palliser's analysis in his excellent book "Fighting the Anti-Sicilians".

Also, 176 pages is a significant number of pages considering that the Grand Prix Attack is not overly theoretical.

Taking into account that the Index of Variations is six pages (including diagrams, I would assume), chances are the book will be fairly detailed compared to the average Starting Out book!


I think you guys expect way too much from these starting out books.

Frankly Gawain Jones games on ICC show nothing special against the approach suggested in Palliser's Book, but perhaps he's holding back something  Roll Eyes.

For what its worth the ICC number one Grand Prix Attack player, Tigrano, real name Tigran Petrosian, no relation to the late one unless he's channeling, seems to prefer the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 g6 4.Bb5 for some reason, but I am unaware what that reason is.

Toppy Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The King
Full Member
***
Offline


Give me convenience or
give me death

Posts: 173
Location: Dublin
Joined: 01/08/05
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #12 - 02/27/08 at 13:34:40
Post Tools
Anyone who has this book interested in giving their opinion on it?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10506
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #11 - 02/13/08 at 22:57:36
Post Tools
Peculiar - Lane's book on the GPA also counts 176 pages. I notice that Jones does not treat 2.f4, while we will not find 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 in Lane's.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DoubledPawns
Senior Member
****
Offline


1.a3 e5 2.Nc3 Ba3 3.Ne4
Bf8 4.Ra5 Ke7 5.Re5#

Posts: 283
Joined: 02/01/08
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #10 - 02/13/08 at 08:12:34
Post Tools
I will be curious to see what improvements Gawain has over Palliser's analysis in his excellent book "Fighting the Anti-Sicilians".

Also, 176 pages is a significant number of pages considering that the Grand Prix Attack is not overly theoretical.

Taking into account that the Index of Variations is six pages (including diagrams, I would assume), chances are the book will be fairly detailed compared to the average Starting Out book!
  

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something - Plato
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alumbrado
God Member
*****
Offline


Esse quam videri bonus
malebo

Posts: 1418
Location: London
Joined: 02/17/03
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #9 - 02/12/08 at 23:36:16
Post Tools
I have to say that having followed Jones' career it is a bonus that he is covering the 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bb5 line - which to be honest I wouldn't really class as a GPA - as Jones points out, White usually refrains from f2-f4 which, for me, is the characteristic move of the GPA.
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Rainbird
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 2
Location: Frankfurt
Joined: 04/28/05
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #8 - 02/12/08 at 09:11:48
Post Tools
This book is out now ... at least in Germany  Smiley  I will receive my order within two days, but here is already the table of contents for those interested:

004 Bibliography

007 Introduction

013 1 2...Nc6 3 f4 g6 4 Nf3 Bg7 5 Bc4

029 2 2...Nc6 3 f4 g6 4 Nf3 Bg7 5 Bb5

068 3 2...d6 3 f4

087 4 2...e6 3 f4

114 5 Other Second Moves for Black

128 6 2...Nc6 3 Bb5: Introduction

146 7 2...Nc6 3 Bb5 Nd4

167 Index of Variations

173 Index of Complete Games
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2040
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #7 - 02/10/08 at 20:53:34
Post Tools
Does he cover 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Bb5 Na5!? or ?!. This rare continuation looks playable enough and hardly seems to have been touched by theory.

Toppy Smiley

  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DoubledPawns
Senior Member
****
Offline


1.a3 e5 2.Nc3 Ba3 3.Ne4
Bf8 4.Ra5 Ke7 5.Re5#

Posts: 283
Joined: 02/01/08
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #6 - 02/10/08 at 08:19:04
Post Tools
Just wondering, is there coverage of the 2.f4 variation as well as the 2.Nc3 and f4 variation of the GP, or just 2.Nc3? Also, is there any coverage of the 2.Nc3 a6!? variation, which was suggested by Palliser in "Fighting the Anti-Sicilians".
  

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something - Plato
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2159
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #5 - 02/09/08 at 09:59:19
Post Tools
I know!
Fear not Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DoubledPawns
Senior Member
****
Offline


1.a3 e5 2.Nc3 Ba3 3.Ne4
Bf8 4.Ra5 Ke7 5.Re5#

Posts: 283
Joined: 02/01/08
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #4 - 02/09/08 at 09:29:54
Post Tools
Bibs wrote on 02/09/08 at 09:19:25:
TomR
Thanks for that. Indeed Mr Jones has done rather well with the line.

Just checking - do you work part-time as the bloke who writes back-of-book blurbs? Just teasing.

Thanks again for feedback. Much appreciated.

Doubledpawns - please don't get that started here too. Ugh.

Bibs


I intended that comment as a joke, of course. On to more serious stuff.
  

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something - Plato
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2159
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #3 - 02/09/08 at 09:19:25
Post Tools
TomR
Thanks for that. Indeed Mr Jones has done rather well with the line.

Just checking - do you work part-time as the bloke who writes back-of-book blurbs? Just teasing.

Thanks again for feedback. Much appreciated.

Doubledpawns - please don't get that started here too. Ugh.

Bibs
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
DoubledPawns
Senior Member
****
Offline


1.a3 e5 2.Nc3 Ba3 3.Ne4
Bf8 4.Ra5 Ke7 5.Re5#

Posts: 283
Joined: 02/01/08
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #2 - 02/09/08 at 07:33:04
Post Tools
I wonder if there is any mention of 3...g5 Wink (referring to the thread on this gambit).
  

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something - Plato
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TomR
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 65
Joined: 08/31/04
Gender: Male
Re: Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
Reply #1 - 02/08/08 at 17:35:07
Post Tools
I've seen a rough copy of the book (a chessbase version). It covers all the main lines of the GPA and often goes deeper into theory than other books in the 'Starting Out' series.
Having said this it still keeps the same format and clear explanations that we have come to expect from the series. Jones has an excellent record in this opening and I would recommend this as a must to any current or potential GPA player.  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2159
Joined: 10/24/06
Grand Prix Attack - G Jones
02/08/08 at 01:47:39
Post Tools
Any sightings?
Views and reviews?

At only 174 pages, seems a bit short, but naturally brevity here could verily be the soul of chess wit.

Any opinions much appreciated,

Bibs
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo