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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) King's Gambit Declined Question (Read 11496 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #22 - 09/27/25 at 17:06:02
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FreeRepublic wrote on 09/22/25 at 16:35:23:
Vienna Game for White - Top-Level Repertoire, August 9, 2025 by GM Baadur Jobava GM Pier Luigi Basso

A sample video is included. Challenge:  Can you keep up with Jobava?
  
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MNb
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #21 - 09/26/25 at 06:25:31
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Ceding the pair of bishops in a fairly open position is not my cup of tea.
  

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Nernstian59
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #20 - 09/26/25 at 02:11:17
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The ChessBase Opening Encyclopaedia has a 2021 article by Alexey Kuzmin on the line with 4...Na5 5.Bb3 Nxb3 6.axb3. Apparently this was first published in ChessBase Magazine #200. Kuzmin covers four Black replies: 6...Bc5, 6...Be7, 6...Bb4, and 6...d5. Kuzmin analyzes this last move using Firouzja-Carlsen from the Chess24 BanterBlitz Cup 15.04.2020. Although his article advocates for the White side, Kuzmin concedes that with 6...d5, "Black obtains full equality." However, he points out that Carlsen missed chances to equalize on moves 10 and 17 and eventually lost the game. Putting White's chances in a favorable light, Kuzmin notes that even the World Champion had problems finding a reliable way to equalize over the board. Speaking more broadly, Kuzmin says the Vienna offers practical chances since it's "quite a rare opening" and Black players are not likely to be familiar with "the subtleties of the 5.Bb3 variation." 

  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #19 - 09/24/25 at 19:45:02
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MNb wrote on 09/24/25 at 06:14:17:
4...Na5 5.Bb3 Nxb3 6.axb3 d5.

Thanks for highlighing this sequence. I agree that it's an excellent way to limit or eliminate white's chances.

I looked at some lines available at ChessPublishing. I get the impression that White can expect an equal game after best play. Jobava and Basso indicate some imbalance, rather than an advantage. I wonder how.

Fortunately, many opponents don't play the best moves over-the-board or in speed chess.

There are otherways for white to aim for a possible King's gambit declined. One way starts with 1e4 e5 2Bc4 Nc6 or 2...Bc5. If Black does not cooperate there is the Urusoff gambit, 1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Nf6 3. d4. Here as well, White will be content with an equal game after best play.

Of course, white could simply play 1e4 e5 2f4, hoping for 2...Bc5. Most opponents will play 2...exf. I noticed two Chessable courses promoting the King's Gambit, one by GM Alan Pichot and the other by GM Ian Nepomniachtchi.

Black, for his part, might choose to "fall for it." The King's Gambit Declined leads to interesting chess and provides a common answer to many move sequences.
« Last Edit: 09/24/25 at 21:42:40 by FreeRepublic »  
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MNb
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #18 - 09/24/25 at 06:14:17
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MNb wrote on 09/23/25 at 06:26:22:
the most important defense 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d3 Na5!


FreeRepublic wrote on 09/23/25 at 13:22:16:

From the table of contents it looks to be in chapter 6.

The text (available at website) states:

"When facing 4…Na5, a move designed to trade off the dangerous light-squared bishop, the recommendation is 5.Bb3 followed by a quick f4.

Diagram

The point is to accept the temporary loss of the bishop pair in exchange for fast pawn storms and open-file play—an approach that turns a defensive attempt by Black into a dynamic battle."


Thank. Unfortunately it doesn't work.4...Na5 5.Bb3 Nxb3 6.axb3 d5.
  

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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #17 - 09/23/25 at 20:01:00
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On a historical note, Andrew Soltis in a 1988 book went with (4...Na5) 5. Nge2, as did Gufeld/Kalinichenko in 1996. John Emms in 2001 opted for 5. Qf3.
  
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FreeRepublic
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #16 - 09/23/25 at 13:22:16
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MNb wrote on 09/23/25 at 06:26:22:
the most important defense 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d3 Na5!

From the table of contents it looks to be in chapter 6.

The text (available at website) states:

"When facing 4…Na5, a move designed to trade off the dangerous light-squared bishop, the recommendation is 5.Bb3 followed by a quick f4.

Diagram

The point is to accept the temporary loss of the bishop pair in exchange for fast pawn storms and open-file play—an approach that turns a defensive attempt by Black into a dynamic battle."
  
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MNb
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #15 - 09/23/25 at 06:26:22
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Unfortunately the description doesn't say anything about the most important defense 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d3 Na5!
  

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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #14 - 09/22/25 at 16:35:23
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The King's Gambit Declined appears to figure prominently (but not exclusively) in a recent modern-chess database:
Vienna Game for White - Top-Level Repertoire, August 9, 2025 by GM Baadur Jobava GM Pier Luigi Basso

I cannot find The Fascinating King's Gambit, by Thomas Johansson, mentioned in this thread at a reasonable price.

The Vienna game, Bishop's Opening, and King's gambit can transpose to common positions known as the King's gambit declined. The lines are very interesting. In every case, white and black can choose to diverge. Taken all together, it is a maze of possible variations.

Anyone intersted should follow the link:
https://www.modern-chess.com/vienna-game-for-white-top-level-repertoire-700/?the...
read the description and scroll down to their sample chapter.
  
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #13 - 02/26/08 at 09:17:11
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Thx Dragonslayer for the corrections and additional information

This was clearly the opinion from a real expert! Wink
  
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #12 - 02/25/08 at 16:47:21
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Agree with most of Micawber's lines, and I also prefer line c). A few additions:

1) The line (b2z) 8...Nd4 9.Qg3 0-0 10.fxe5 dxe5 11.Kd1 (This move was given by Estrin and Glazkov 1982) 11...b5! does indeed look good for Black. But it is not a new move. To my knowledge it was first played in J.Enevoldsen-R.Hartoch, IBM B, Amsterdam 1966. White replied 12.Bb3 Nxb3 (so 12...b4 is new  Wink ) 13.axb3 b4 14.Bh6 Ne8 (14...Nh5 as in the next game looks preferable) 15.Ne2 and won in 58 moves.
It is also in the books: On page 143 Neil McDonald gives the game McDonald-Mikhalevski, London 1992, which saw 11...b5! 12.Bh6 (with no alternatives here) 12...Nh5 13.Qxe5 bxc4 14.Qxc5 drawn in 18 moves.

2) (line b2x) The reason the books don't mention Chigorin-Burill,New York 1889  is that Tartakover recommended 12.Kd1 (iso 12.Ke2) Neil McDOnald did some good analysis of this line reversing the official evaluation of +/-. All books (e.g. Korchnoi/Zak, Estrin/Glazkov) give 12...Nxa1 13.Nd5 Be7 14.Nxe7+ Qxe7 15.Rf1 Kh8 16.Qh4 and the threat Rxf6 decides in favour of White. There are two problems here:
a) This is one of those positions that look a lot less scary with a computer assisting the defence: After 16...b5 Black will counterattack with 17.Rxf6 Qc5 which should at least draw. If the bishop moves then d3 is soft and a rook comes to d8. If Black captures on b5 then Qb4xb2 comes into consideration.
b) 15...Nxe4! 16.dxe4 Qd6 McDonald attributes this line to ECO with a +/- verdict. This must be the 1981 edition, since the 1975 edition is identical to Korchnoi's book. McDonald proceeds to show that 16...Qd7+ is unclear. 

3) 11...Qd6 is also playable (line b2x).

4) If White tries 10.Bb3 then Johansson gives 10...Nh5, while 10...exf4 11.Bxf4 Nh5 of Otte-Schoorl, Dieren 2007 also looks effective. Black soon had a winning position.

5) I don't have Davies' book but after 9...exf4 10.Qxg7 Rf8 11.Kd1 Qe7 I wonder what he recommends to give White better chances. 12.Rf1 Rg8 13.Qh6 Rxg2 14.Bxf4 Black has:
a) Larry Evans recommended 14...Ne6 and Black is slightly better.
b) 14...Rg6 15.Qh4 Ne6 is worse since after 16.Bxe6 Qxe6 17.Bg5 Ng8 does not hit the queen at h6. White is better here.
c) 14...Nxc2 15.Bg5 should not be met by 15...Rxg5. Instead Bangiev gives a cool queen sacrifice beginning with 15...Nxa1.
White can try to avoid this with 14.Qxf4 or 12.Bxf4. I find it hard to believe that White should be better after 12.Bxf4 Rg8 13.Qh6 Rxg2 14.Bg5 Ng8!
  
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #11 - 02/24/08 at 16:40:21
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A somewhat closer look at the possibilities:

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After 8....Nd4 9.Qg3 black has (at least 5 plausible moves):

(a) 9...Nh5 (Marin's reason to prefer 8...exf)
10.Qg4+, Nxc2+!? (After 10..g6 11.Kd1 white is perhaps somewhat better) 
11.Kd1, Nxa1 12.Qxh5,0-0! 13.fxe5,dxe5
and Johansson provides analysis that runs to the 30th move 
to show that chances are equal.
And no, i am not going to disclose this fascinating piece of analysis,
If you're interested buy The Fascinating King's Gambit
.


(b) 9...0-0 (Davies recommendation) 10.fxe5,
(b1) 10....Nxc2+ (Johansson)
I've tracked down Johansson's elusive transposition:
11.Kd1,Nh5 12.Qg4,Nxa1 13.Qxh5, dxe5 transposes to line (a)

But black doesnt need to play like this. I would preferr
9...0-0 10.fxe5,
(b2) 10....dxe5 a much older continuaton:
(b2x) 11.Bg5,Nxc2+ 12.Ke2,Nd4+ Chigorin-Burill,New York 1889
(b2y) 11.Bb3,Qd6 with somewhat equal chances
(b2z) 11.Kd1, b5! (my own innovation) 12.Bb3,b4 and black has a good game.
Both 12.Nxb5 and 12.Bxb5 have small tactical refutations.

Curiously Davies only provides (b2x) as Tartokowers recommendation
without reference to the original game that well precedes Tartakower.
(b2y and b2z are not mentioned).


(c) 9...exf4 is also possible and was analysed by Keres
after 10.Qxg7,Rf8 11.Kd1,Qe7 chances are more or less equal. Davies thinks white chances are more or less preferable.

(d) 9....Qe7 has been condemned as the weakest continuation
but even this is unsure as old analysis contains quite a few mistakes.
after 10.fxe5,dxe5 11.Kd1!,c6 black can probably equalize as Johansson shows.

(e) 9...Nxc2+ 10.Kd1
(e1) 10....Nxa1 11.Qxg7 leads to a white advantage.
(e2) 10....Nh5! (Johansson) 11.Qg4,Nxa1 12.Qxh5, 0-0!
13.fxe5,dxe5 agains leads to variation (a).

===========================================
Considering all posibilities with somewhat greater attention,
both 8...Nd4 and 8...exf seems fully acceptable for black.

I personally wouldnt recommend black to go willing 
into variations (a) and (e) after 8...Nd4.
While variations (c) and (d) seem a little passive. 
This leaves variation (c), avoiding transposition into Johanssons variation 
by playing 8...Nd4 9.Qg3,0-0 10.fxe,dxe5 (iso 10...Nxc2+)


One afterthought though 
Marin's recommendation partly rests on
the fact that 8...exf 9.Bxf4,Nd4 10.Qg3,Nh5 should be good for black
so that 10.Qd1 is more or less forced after which black has good play.
But white has an important alternative in 9.Bb5 after which play
becomes unclear as Marin himself admits.


  
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micawber
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #10 - 02/22/08 at 20:20:07
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Davies gives:
7.h3, Bxf3 8.Qxf3, Nd4 9.Qg3!, 0-0! (Tartakower)
and comments that he considers 9....Nxc2+ as too risky for black.
He gives no clear reason for avoiding 8.....exf4

Marin more also gives
7.h3, Bxf3 8.Qxf3, Nd4 9.Qg3! but only considers 9....Nxc2+ (bad for black) and Qe7. 
His point is that if black plays 8...Nd4 9.Qg3,Nh5 is not good for black
after 10.Qg4

if black inserts the capture on f4
7.h3,Bxf3 8.Qxf3, exf 9.Bxf,Nd4! 10.Qg3,Nh5 then
11.Qg4 black can capture with Nxf4.

Johansson  examines this position as well:

NMB comments that Johanson thinks 8...exf doenst equalize,
but this is only partly true (if black gives this variation an independent turn).  Johanson adds that 8...exf 
9.Bxf4,Nd4 should lead to a transpostion of the 8.....Nd4 lines.
Johansson also gives Davies variation with 9...0-0, although I couldnt establish what his final verdict on this line is, as he gives a rather untracable transposition. 
Finally there is a lot of analyses after Marin's continuation, suggesting this line is still unclear, but maybe still playable for white.

All considered, I think I should go with Davies suggestion. 
If you're more materialistic or reckless and plan to capture with Nxc2+
Marin's continuation is probably more accurate.

By the way 8...Nd4 9.Qg3 was also played by Bobby Fischer 
(in a simul in 1964). 
  
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #9 - 02/22/08 at 14:14:06
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 02/22/08 at 10:14:16:
When I get some free time I promise to update the KG eBook and add the Forum analysis file to it, as with the 2 Knights. Wink
In the meantime I am stuck in Cappelle and have no access to the relevant books, can someone quickly explain why Marin and Davies think their line is the most accurate?


I will send you some games from an ICCF King's Gambit fixed Openings tournament. I may have sent them before but some are theoretically important. 

Best bwishes.
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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Re: King's Gambit Declined Question
Reply #8 - 02/22/08 at 10:14:16
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When I get some free time I promise to update the KG eBook and add the Forum analysis file to it, as with the 2 Knights. Wink
In the meantime I am stuck in Cappelle and have no access to the relevant books, can someone quickly explain why Marin and Davies think their line is the most accurate?
  
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