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Normal Topic Gruenfeld Exchange with 7.Bc4 and 14.Rc1. (Read 2602 times)
Glenn Snow
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Re: Gruenfeld Exchange with 7.Bc4 and 14.Rc1.
Reply #7 - 03/16/08 at 02:42:07
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Markovich wrote on 03/03/08 at 03:05:45:
Gruenfeld Exchange: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 Nc3 8.Be3 Nc6 9.Ne2 0-0 10.0-0 Bg4 11.f3 Na5 12.Bd3 cxd4 13.cxd4 Be6 14.Rc1 Bxa2 15.Qa4 Bb3 16.Qb4 b6  17.Rc3 Be6 18.Rfc1 Rc8 19.Nf4 Rxc3 20.Rxc3.  

In his monumental An Expert's Guide to the 7.Bc4 Gruenfeld, which much surely be one of the most substantive and challenging works of chess theory ever written, GM Sakaev considers 20...Bd7 and 20...Qd6.

But my silicon seems to like 20...Ba2 and I wonder if this move is not a good one, in the same spirit as 15...Bb3.  Its particular points here are that it seems to prevent Nd5, and also prepares 21...e5.  Thus 21.e5 (21.Ne2 Be6 invites a perpetual) 21...Bh6 22.Kh1 Bxf4 23.Bxf4 Kg7  24.Ba6 Be6  25.Be3 f6 looks tolerable for Black.   Or 21.Rc2 Bb3.

I apologize if someone has played 20...Ba2 or addressed it here already.  It's not in my database.



I looked at this and came to much the same conclusions.  For what it's worth I think Black has equality in the 18...Qd6 variation as well.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Gruenfeld Exchange with 7.Bc4 and 14.Rc1.
Reply #6 - 03/07/08 at 00:12:56
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J-dog wrote on 03/06/08 at 23:42:54:
why not just ra3 forcing be6 then ne6 wrecks blacks pawns and w has 2 bishops?


That would appear to let Black off lightly with regard to his problematic QB/piece coordination/the cramping effect of White's center.  There would also be 21...e5 to be taken into account.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Gruenfeld Exchange with 7.Bc4 and 14.Rc1.
Reply #5 - 03/06/08 at 12:49:57
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ANDREW BRETT wrote on 03/06/08 at 11:04:50:
Rc1 is just a bad pawn sac- your novelty I suspect is good but I think you have no chance of getting to play it as most players would play the exchange sacrifice or bxf7 lines.


Fair enough.  But Sakaev does attempt, in one chapter, to demonstrate that 14.Rc1 is good.
  

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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Gruenfeld Exchange with 7.Bc4 and 14.Rc1.
Reply #4 - 03/06/08 at 11:04:50
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Rc1 is just a bad pawn sac- your novelty I suspect is good but I think you have no chance of getting to play it as most players would play the exchange sacrifice or bxf7 lines.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Gruenfeld Exchange with 7.Bc4 and 14.Rc1.
Reply #3 - 03/05/08 at 20:02:26
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CheckMate wrote on 03/05/08 at 17:23:10:
Hard chess versus philosophy?

Well, I have noticed the same thing. But I think most of us reacts with a yawn when encountering a question about the 25:th move deviations in a variation we don't play with either color, nor will we ever play it, have never heard about and finally don't feel anything about. That's only human I think. Considering there are gazillions of lines, each one of us probably employs less than 10^-4 of these in our own games.

By the way haven't the last time's developments in this line mainly focused on 14. d5? I've got the impression that 14. Rc1 is no longer considered dangerous but I can be wrong.

Such "hard chess" lines is exactly the reaon why I dumped the Grunfeld. It's too tedious constantly keeping up with what's recently happening in these insanely complex variations.



Hey, that's a 20th move deviation!
  

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CheckMate
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Re: Gruenfeld Exchange with 7.Bc4 and 14.Rc1.
Reply #2 - 03/05/08 at 17:23:10
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Hard chess versus philosophy?

Well, I have noticed the same thing. But I think most of us reacts with a yawn when encountering a question about the 25:th move deviations in a variation we don't play with either color, nor will we ever play it, have never heard about and finally don't feel anything about. That's only human I think. Considering there are gazillions of lines, each one of us probably employs less than 10^-4 of these in our own games.

By the way haven't the last time's developments in this line mainly focused on 14. d5? I've got the impression that 14. Rc1 is no longer considered dangerous but I can be wrong.

Such "hard chess" lines is exactly the reaon why I dumped the Grunfeld. It's too tedious constantly keeping up with what's recently happening in these insanely complex variations.








  
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Markovich
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Re: Gruenfeld Exchange with 7.Bc4 and 14.Rc1.
Reply #1 - 03/04/08 at 15:03:27
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Well this passed unnoticed, so I am boosting it to try to increase its chance of being seen.  I apologize if this is annoying.

In general, it bothers me that chess opening philosophy is easier to find on this board than hard chess is.
  

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Markovich
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Gruenfeld Exchange with 7.Bc4 and 14.Rc1.
03/03/08 at 03:05:45
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Gruenfeld Exchange: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 Nc3 8.Be3 Nc6 9.Ne2 0-0 10.0-0 Bg4 11.f3 Na5 12.Bd3 cxd4 13.cxd4 Be6 14.Rc1 Bxa2 15.Qa4 Bb3 16.Qb4 b6  17.Rc3 Be6 18.Rfc1 Rc8 19.Nf4 Rxc3 20.Rxc3. 

In his monumental An Expert's Guide to the 7.Bc4 Gruenfeld, which much surely be one of the most substantive and challenging works of chess theory ever written, GM Sakaev considers 20...Bd7 and 20...Qd6.

But my silicon seems to like 20...Ba2 and I wonder if this move is not a good one, in the same spirit as 15...Bb3.  Its particular points here are that it seems to prevent Nd5, and also prepares 21...e5.  Thus 21.e5 (21.Ne2 Be6 invites a perpetual) 21...Bh6 22.Kh1 Bxf4 23.Bxf4 Kg7  24.Ba6 Be6  25.Be3 f6 looks tolerable for Black.   Or 21.Rc2 Bb3.

I apologize if someone has played 20...Ba2 or addressed it here already.  It's not in my database.

  

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